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Can anyone suggest a WB02 controller with LSU4.9 and canbus? 
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
Posts: 241
Location: Toronto Canada
MWP wrote:
Ok, 14point7 is a no go.
I've read a few reports now of orders being placed, and the product never being shipped, or taking >2 months to arrive.
Shame, since it looks like Alan has a good product.

Next best?


I have always shipped out product, if the customer at anytime is unsatisfied I always give the customer the option of a full refund.

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Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:54 am
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
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Location: Toronto Canada
Matthijs wrote:
I had issues with Alan also. Received a unit last year, layed on my desk for a year before I could use it (still well within waranty period). Unit didn't work as expected, bot narrow and wideband outputs stuck a 5v. Sent it back for testing and warranty. Had to constantly email him about the status. He tested the unit as working o.k. . Offered me a refund at that point or the unit shipped back. I choose the latter because I needed a WB unit. When it arrived at my home, still malfunctioning. He won't believe it but I saw no proof ever that it worked ok at his test bench. Still offered a refund but I needed to ship it back (again!) and than I would get a refund ex the orginial shipping, ex customs, ex the warranty return shipment and ex the refund shipment which would leave me with $10 or so.
After numerous emails on how I asked how to debug the controller, or weither he could send me a replacement controller (even begged for a discount on a new controller in the end, instead of a warranty unit), no usefull replies. I won't order from him again. Product might be the best around, can't say the same about his communication or customer skills.
Full story here: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2333&start=20


I tested your unit on my bench, it tested perfectly, after I tested it I offered you the option of a refund. I was hoping that you would take the refund, because the problem is with your installation and I do not want the headache of convincing you that you are the problem. Anyways I sent it back to you, and you told me it still does not work, so again I offer you a refund, but of course as with any refund you have to send the product back to me.

I did not reply to your emails about further debugging because that would require me to give you my design schematics. Regarding a replacement unit or a discount for another unit, I honestly do not want to send you anymore product, I would much rather you send the unit back to me and I refund your money. I tend to have a hard time letting people down, so I drag my feet when writing those negative emails, eventually I just end up forgetting about it.

The offer a refund is still open, just send it back to me and I will give you your money back.

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Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:13 am
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TO220 - Visibile

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toalan wrote:
I have always shipped out product


There seems to be plenty of "I ordered xxxx from you months ago, and have not received it".
Yes, you do give full refunds, but no explanation as to why they never received their items.

Im not going to order from a guy that doesn't reply to support emails, and when i can't be sure that i'll actually get the items i pay for in a timely manner (if at all).


Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:20 am
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toalan wrote:

I tested your unit on my bench, it tested perfectly, after I tested it I offered you the option of a refund. I was hoping that you would take the refund, because the problem is with your installation and I do not want the headache of convincing you that you are the problem. Anyways I sent it back to you, and you told me it still does not work, so again I offer you a refund, but of course as with any refund you have to send the product back to me.

I did not reply to your emails about further debugging because that would require me to give you my design schematics. Regarding a replacement unit or a discount for another unit, I honestly do not want to send you anymore product, I would much rather you send the unit back to me and I refund your money. I tend to have a hard time letting people down, so I drag my feet when writing those negative emails, eventually I just end up forgetting about it.

The offer a refund is still open, just send it back to me and I will give you your money back.


I ordered a second Spartan separate controller, which works perfectly, just to proof that this issue ISN'T a problem at my side. I've sent you pictures and endless discriptions of my testing and you din't reply on half of my emails, and some only at the points suitable to proof your own point. At this time of writing I didn't receive -any- proof you tested the unit at all. I mentioned this earlier in the email conversation, or better: monologue and you ignore this point every time.
I removed the controller from the non working unit since it was solid 5v all over the place and clearly not working and attached the lambda sensor to my second controller and it worked also flawless.
I promise you to not order anything from you directly. I don't have anything against your product it is just your communication.
Sure 99 out of 100 issues are a customer induced error. But form the first email I sent you about connection details, wiring setups including pictures and all, everything to prevent this discussion about user errors, setup errors, whatever, you didn't reply once to confirm is was o.k. Only after I specifically asked you to confirm the setup. Which is was by the way, because the second unit is connected exactly the same way and fired up instantly.

Did it ever crossed your mind that YOU might have made human error in the whole process and thought you have tested it and perhaps mixed it up with another unit? Or is it always someone else at fault? Same with the post above and the other complaints on your forum


Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:33 am
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
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Location: Toronto Canada
MWP wrote:
toalan wrote:
I have always shipped out product


There seems to be plenty of "I ordered xxxx from you months ago, and have not received it".
Yes, you do give full refunds, but no explanation as to why they never received their items.

Im not going to order from a guy that doesn't reply to support emails, and when i can't be sure that i'll actually get the items i pay for in a timely manner (if at all).


I sell alot of product, not every order works out perfectly. Again in all cases where there are problems I always offer the customer the option for a refund. Offering a refund is as honest as I can run my business.

As for the reason why some package get delayed, the explanation is a long one:

Prior to 2014, I was at the mercy of Canada Post to delver all packages both domestic and foreign. Now if you are Canadian, you will understand how horrible the price and service offered by CanadaPost is. For shipments outside of Canada and US, it costs me about $30 to ship a 1kg package without tracking, with tracking it is atleast 2x as much. Now no one is going to buy say my spartan Lambda Controller 2 @ $75 and then pay another $70 for shipping. So I had to ship without tracking, which is a total nightmare as packages get lost all the time. The alternative was to not do business. If you look at posts of people missing shipments or having delayed shipments, it is almost always to countries with poor postal services in which there are high incidents of packages being stolen or being lost. If the package is lost or stolen, I always offer a full refund or reship the item.

After 2014, I drive the packages over to the US border and send them via USPS. USPS offers much better rates and features than CanadaPost. It takes me a whole day to travel to the US and do the paperwork and ship the package. I only drive to the US once a week. If I have a problem with a certain order then the order will be delayed until the next week. With USPS I ship all my package with tracking so I have no more problems with packages getting lost, however because I can only ship once a week sometimes packages still get delayed.

I do everything myself; developed, support, and ship, often things slip through the cracks. I am the only company to release an open source wideband controller, SLC Free, I feel it is testament to my commitment is to running an honest business. My offer of a full refund whenever the customer is not happy is also a testament to my commitment to running an honest business.

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Last edited by toalan on Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:09 am
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
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Location: Toronto Canada
Matthijs wrote:
toalan wrote:

I tested your unit on my bench, it tested perfectly, after I tested it I offered you the option of a refund. I was hoping that you would take the refund, because the problem is with your installation and I do not want the headache of convincing you that you are the problem. Anyways I sent it back to you, and you told me it still does not work, so again I offer you a refund, but of course as with any refund you have to send the product back to me.

I did not reply to your emails about further debugging because that would require me to give you my design schematics. Regarding a replacement unit or a discount for another unit, I honestly do not want to send you anymore product, I would much rather you send the unit back to me and I refund your money. I tend to have a hard time letting people down, so I drag my feet when writing those negative emails, eventually I just end up forgetting about it.

The offer a refund is still open, just send it back to me and I will give you your money back.


I ordered a second Spartan separate controller, which works perfectly, just to proof that this issue ISN'T a problem at my side. I've sent you pictures and endless discriptions of my testing and you din't reply on half of my emails, and some only at the points suitable to proof your own point. At this time of writing I didn't receive -any- proof you tested the unit at all. I mentioned this earlier in the email conversation, or better: monologue and you ignore this point every time.
I removed the controller from the non working unit since it was solid 5v all over the place and clearly not working and attached the lambda sensor to my second controller and it worked also flawless.
I promise you to not order anything from you directly. I don't have anything against your product it is just your communication.
Sure 99 out of 100 issues are a customer induced error. But form the first email I sent you about connection details, wiring setups including pictures and all, everything to prevent this discussion about user errors, setup errors, whatever, you didn't reply once to confirm is was o.k. Only after I specifically asked you to confirm the setup. Which is was by the way, because the second unit is connected exactly the same way and fired up instantly.

Did it ever crossed your mind that YOU might have made human error in the whole process and thought you have tested it and perhaps mixed it up with another unit? Or is it always someone else at fault? Same with the post above and the other complaints on your forum


I remember in an email I asked you if you ordered another of my wideband controllers, I never saw a response to that email. If I had known that you had another of my wideband controllers and it was working, then I would have given you other options rather than a refund. As far as I knew, the issue is with your install, and my offer of a refund was still standing and giving you a refund was the best option for both of us.

I tested your unit twice to make sure there was no problem with the controller, in both cases the unit worked perfectly. I do not appreciate your accusation that I never tested the unit.

Now that I know that you have another of my wideband controllers and it works, then please send the unit back to me and I will send you out a new unit. I need that unit back, if there is a problem with the unit then I need to investigate it further.

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Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:17 am
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Thread split off from the wideband sticky as it was polluting it badly with arguments about shipping and emails with no actual valuable content. You can carry on with the discussion at your free will, and no matter what gets thrown around, I'll still be using Alan's stuff as I firmly believe it's the best I can get, and offers amazing value. If not getting timely emails is actually a problem for you, then sure, buy something inferior and enjoy your emails :-)

Alan, great move on the USPS weekly operation. Shipping daily is a massive burden anyway, in batches is the only reasonable way as a one-man shop, I know, but on a much smaller scale.

Canadian post is indeed crappy, and you're as likely to lose one of your children in most of South and Central America as you are a package from abroad.

Fred.

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Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:14 am
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toalan wrote:
I remember in an email I asked you if you ordered another of my wideband controllers, I never saw a response to that email. If I had known that you had another of my wideband controllers and it was working, then I would have given you other options rather than a refund. As far as I knew, the issue is with your install, and my offer of a refund was still standing and giving you a refund was the best option for both of us.

I tested your unit twice to make sure there was no problem with the controller, in both cases the unit worked perfectly. I do not appreciate your accusation that I never tested the unit.

Now that I know that you have another of my wideband controllers and it works, then please send the unit back to me and I will send you out a new unit. I need that unit back, if there is a problem with the unit then I need to investigate it further.


I wrote this e-mail:

Quote:
On 11/24/2014 4:33 AM, matthijs@[..].nl wrote:

Hi Alan,

New controller + sensor came in this weekend, they work flawless. :) 1.66-3.33v startup routine, reacts to lighter gas, awesome :)
While I was testing the other non-functioning unit I noticed the plug getting (very) hot, the regulator was too hot to handle. After cool down it wouldn't come back alive any more.
I noticed that the output was at 5.15v and than even 6.0v at some point. Now it is stuck at 0.35v. The opposite side is very hot also. (where the protection diodes are I guess, near the uC).
Maybe this explains the erratic behavior that it worked at some point while testing at your place. I think the power stage is/was at fault from the beginning.
I found the same behavior of the control board(s) here:
[snip]
Is it possible to get an replacement controller or controller pcb to insert?

best regards,
Matthijs


Your reply:
Quote:
Hi,
Sorry I am not following what is happening. Did you order another unit from me?


At the current time in that specific conversation I wasn't bothered anymore to send a response since the email is real clear at that point in my eyes. Also because I sent this e-mails earlier in the discussion:
Quote:
Hi Alan,

First of all: I'm sorry it causes so much trouble and takes up your time. It is not my intention to be such a pain in the ass ;)
I'm just a fellow car enthusiast (I assume) trying to get a project done. Products fail, I realize that and try to work something out that is ok for both of us. That is why I e-mail you directly instead of posting shit on forums. I think it is just a string of bad luck. I still do want to support your business and want to use a spartan. I saw your shop has run out of spartan sensors/controller so I'm about to order one locally from bs-autotune.nl
The first reason being I still need a wideband, the second being slightly to proof that my setup isn't at fault.

I hope I'm not in your black list (yet) and that we just had a bad start. I like your in-dept posts on the FreeEMS forum and how you help people out. I also hope that the sensor from bs-autotune works out just fine and I can proceed tuning my FreeEMS.

About the refund:
I appreciate the offer. However: I already paid shipping and import at the initial purchase, which is fair off course, but it isn't part of the refund as you made clear earlier. This is a total of 30 euros. Then I shipped it back once, costing 16 euro's. If I ship it back -again-, it costs me another 16 euro's. This adds up to 62 euro's of handling.
A $105 dollar refund nets me 20 euro's and no sensor/controller.

Is there a way to confirm the sensor itself is still o.k. and only the controller is at fault? Or the other way around?
As I mentioned I have a scope (and a logic analyzer) so perhaps I can trace some points at the pcb for debug data?

If the lambda sensor itself is still working I could use it with the controller/sensor combo I'm going to order at bs-autotune and perhaps we can split the refund.

Let me now what you think.

Best Regards,
Matthijs

Quote:
Hi Alan,

Can you please respond to my previous email?
Ive ordered a second spartan, this time a controller with seperate sensor.
I would like a refund for the current one. If you would like the unit back for testing I need the shipping costs covered on top of the refund.
If I can assist you with an analysis of the broken unit without sending it back, just ask.

Best regards,
Matthijs

Side note on the "I need the shipping costs covered on top of the refund." :since I payed shipping towards my house (super fair), and on the first return (mildy fair because this fact is stated on his site), the unit is still defective it would be fair in my eyes to equal out the first return shipment.

Image
15 e-mails sent with all findings and almost begging for another solution than "just a refund" because of the reason calculated above, two even forwarded
And I sent you this pic:
Image
Clearly showing a almost 5v from the brown wire (simulated output), which should -never- should be higher than 1.0v.

So at that point, after all my effort to make clear what was going on I got this 1 sentence e-mail ignoring all other facts I stated and found about a point that is mentioned several times across different e-mail. At that point I did what I could to make it work, hardware wise and warranty wise, and gave up. I removed the controller and try to salvage what I could from the defective unit If the lambda still worked I would have a very expensive wideband lambda sensor but it would economically would be more efficient (lambda costing 60 euro in the store vs 20 euro remaining from sending it back and being refunded).
Then you swing back at me that my setup is/was at fault after all the effort I put into checking, double checking -and- (trying to) verifying it with you, then scoping and tracing the heck out of the controller, it just stings me. Or in your words " I do not appreciate your accusation". I'm a bit more experienced with hooking up some wires than your average wrench monkey.

I guess we are in a deadlock here. Again; I have nothing against your product, I would (and did) buy it again. I just hoped you would see things from my perspective and tried a bit harder to come to a solution that would suit both of us.


Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:59 am
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Wideband Wizard

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Can you email me again with your address, I will send you out a replacement, you do not have to send the unit back to me.

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Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:45 pm
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Matthijs, I'd like to pay to have the unit sent back, as I'd like Alan to have the opportunity to diagnose it and perhaps improve something (design or process), or at least just understand the issue properly. Can I paypal you enough to cover euro-spec postage of it? Let me know if you're OK with that.

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Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:20 pm
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