40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

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soapypanther
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by soapypanther »

Well, there are no external igniters in my setup, so the CPU pin never leaves the case if that's any consolation to you :) I set it up in the stock ECU case with stock bosch IGBTs for the coils (they have their own grounding plane and grounding pin). Its more or less exactly as the stock Siemens ECU was configured with an MS2 chip in place of the stock CPU. I'll see if I can dig up some pics. All I have here are the PCB files.

Iv'e never had problems driving them with logic level signals and that's how Siemens did it too 8-)

Is there any reason I should amend my ways?

P.S. Im not switching to external igniters ;)
soapypanther
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

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I just got a template laid out with the footprints in place. It looks like I can get 4 boards printed for about $100. They wanted another few hundred to assemble though. I think I would rather solder it myself. Components from digikey look like another $50 for each.

Also, I didn't realize MS3 was using the same processor family! weird...

Anyways, Arttu, Is there a better way to contact you? I would love to split the development with you. We just need to hash out an appropriate pinout for the DIP40 and headers.
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Dan
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Dan »

This is cool. Sing out if you need help with anything? Will you be making your breakout PCB artwork open source? What software package do you use? I would like to see it when you are done, that's all :-)
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Fred
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Fred »

IGBT != darlington. Worst case with IGBT is slow on/off, which can be slightly desirable to avoid noise anyway. I'd likely still drive with a FET driver, though, just to ensure that I could tune it to be fast enough, and to protect the CPU from high current transients when switching the gate capacitance.

With a darlington, you usually/always need to pump more current than a 2 inch copper bar can @ 5V ;-)
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Dan
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Dan »

agreed!

I also recommend the use of a fet driver for ignitor drive duties :-)
Arttu
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Arttu »

soapypanther wrote: Arttu, I would love to get a collaboration going. I am running MS3 on my DD and would love to start with that one. I was thinking I could keep the pinout the same on both the DIP and the headers. Thoughts? Maybe even the dimensions could be kept the same. This way, I can swap back and forth on the fly.
That's exactly what I had in my mind. To keep pinouts, electrical functionality and critical dimensions identical. Generally make swapping back and worth as easy as possible.
I am a little busy at the moment as well, I just started medical school and the work is piling up. This is just my hobby though, and I find fiddling with my car theraputic. Im going to start drafting a daughter card this weekend I hope. What priorities do you have for the card Arttu? I would like to include serial communication chip, a MAX chip for VR conditioning, the crystal and assiciated clock circuitry. Anything else you think I should add? I think I could have a couple done for less than $100 each I hope.
I think there should be all necessary support circuit for the processor (naturally) and serial to USB interface. I think those are the essential parts. Then maybe real time clock and knock circuits too but I'm not sure about these since I'm going to add them on next version of my main board. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to put VR conditioners on the processor board since usually there is some kind conditioner on the main board.

I think $100 is quite realistic target price for a small batch. The first prototypes will probably cost a bit more since this will require a multilayer PCB (most likely).
What are your vehicle specs? Im running a BMW straght 6, COP wasted spark and batch fire high Z injectors. I have a VR sensor on a 60-2 wheel at the crank and a funny proximity sensor on the cam not currently used (hopefully soon to change). I may use a schmitt trigger to simulate a hall signal or take care of this in the code perhaps.
It's an aircooled inline 4 bike engine (Suzuki GSX1100), turbocharged, COP sequential ignition, staged injection with dual injectors, crank and cam triggers with hall sensors. Current crank trigger has 6 evenly spaced theet but I'm going to change it to 24-2 and VR sensor. I realize that most likely I can't do all this with current FreeEMS software but it's a good start if I can just get the engine running.

You can send me a private message or email me directly (arttuh <at> iki.fi). Let's see what kind collaboration we can do. I see you probably want to design your own board and build your prototypes too. Unfortunately I have the same desire ;) But at least we can work together with processor and connector pin mapping. I think that would be a big bonus already.
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Fred
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Fred »

Re emailing, fair enough, however best to keep what you can on the forum, at least technically, at least with post-private-session updates.

Here is the OLD thread on the same topic, for reference. I have no idea what I wrote in it, but it's likely out of date/wrong. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=117
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soapypanther
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by soapypanther »

Fred wrote:Re emailing, fair enough, however best to keep what you can on the forum, at least technically, at least with post-private-session updates.
Good Idea. Ill keep the pertinent Info here then. Maybe I should update the first post with the most up to date work.

I have attached the pinout spreadsheet and need a few things clarified already.

Do my Ignition and Injector pins look right?
For my intake air temp sensor, should I use AN00 or AN07? One is labeled Manifold Air temp, the other Intake Air Temp.
If I do not have a constant 5v feed, will I run into issues? My ECU has a constant 12v so I could add a small regulator to the card but not very many do I'd imagine.

I think Ill move all of the pins out to a header or two, so ill probably have more header than the MS3 card. Im going to try and keep them the same pinout as the Ravage headers.

Now it begins...
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JaniM
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by JaniM »

Hi all!
I'm also intrested of doing adapter boards for MS based boards. I have made some co-operation with Arttu.
I could help with testing and defining specs/pinouts and such things. Board designing I'll left for professionals.
Also I have few MS powered aircooled VW's and access to chassis dynamometer for testing.
Cars are N/A and supercharged.

Jani
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Fred
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Re: 40pin DIP to processor daughter board idea

Post by Fred »

JaniM wrote:Also I have few MS powered aircooled VW's and access to chassis dynamometer for testing.
De-n00bed you! Aircoolers are always welcome <3 The top twenty is waiting for you, make me proud! :-)
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