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Masterkorp's Jaguar 0.4 alpha build. 
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QFP80 - Contributor

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 am
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Location: Scarborough, ON
Fred wrote:
Hmmmm, I don't like hearing logic level coils be called smart. There are quite a few types of ignitors/coils out there. Some are actually smart, others are just convenient.

  1. just coil + just transistor ignitor = dumb as they get
  2. just coil + logic level transistor ignitor = easier to use
  3. coil with built in transistor ignitor = dumb as they get, same as 1
  4. coil with built in logic level transistor ignitor = easier to use, same as 2
  5. logic level transistor setups may incorporate protection/current limit/overdwell protection which can fire the coil prematurely. This could be called smart, but isn't actually smart, just safe, eg LS1 coils
  6. logic level transistor ignitor with actual dwell control built in and protection - this is what i call smart, and is horrible to use with a standalone. Yes, these actually exist in various forms. The ECU fires the spark, and the ignitor turns on early enough by itself to be fired at a good time with good dwell based on prior events.
Someone might come back with more details/corrections, but this isn't too far off.

The LS2 D585 is a type 6; it has overdwell protection and cuts the primary current (firing the plug) around 4.4ms. There have been several instances over on the VoldeSquirt forums (The ECU That Shall Not Be Named) of users seeing erratic timing and detonation due to uncontrolled sparking.

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Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:27 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play
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Hello everyone,

First of all, thank you for your input, besides not having replied right away (my apologies I really though I did it).

So with all your help I think am on the right track.

On the fuel pump its great to know that I can activate the relay on the high side, since i wired all my relays like this, so i shall connect them like:

Fuel Pump
Image

So I connect the HSD to the 12V relay, and the FP is a ground that can be ECU ground right?

Cam Angle Sensor

So the CAS connectivity should be like so:
Image

RPM1+ goes to the 120ª reference signal (black wire) and RPM0+ goes to the 1º signal?
PRM0- and RPM1- would go to a ground, can this be(or should be) the same ground that grounds the CAS sensor signal?

Ignition

Image

So this is will be the connectivity. I assume the places to connect are the Ignitor X and not the IG X one.
Any tips on how to merge the wires from the ignitor relays togheter?

Injectors

Image

So the RB injectors have 2 big common ground wires, I plan on splicing the wires and solder them onto the jaguar, is that ok? Or the ground must come explicity from each injector?
Also why is that surface on the injector ground connectors? Shall I solder the wires onto that surface and the hole?

TPS and IAT,CHT and BRV

Image

So here I have the following questions:
- Where the power that goes to IAT and CHT comes from ?
- What are those GND and GND connections? Are they extra grounds to connect ground to the Jaguar?

Wideband

Image

My wideband is Innovative MTX-L and it has an analog output that can be configurable, I can see where I can connect the 5V (vdc), but where do I connect the ground?

AAC Idle and VTC solenoids

Image

I have no idea what I am doing here.

Would LSD go to the solenoids grounds ? Where do I get the 5V from?


Besides that these are my questions for now. Thank you so much for you help so far!

Regards,
Alfredo Palhares


Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:48 pm
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Going to leave the other stuff for Andy to answer as I'm quite busy. A few observations:

1) You need to jumper your ignition Voltage sources (12v for std RB stuff)
2) You need to connect IG3 to the CPU T4 (IG1 and IG2 are already connected to T2 and T3)
3) Those are the input to the injector FETs, they need to come from the CPU, 2 from each CPU pin T5,6,7
4) FP is not a ground, jumper FP to either LSD or HSD and connect the FP relay wire to the appropriate output you jumpered the input of
5) The flat pads are to link related grounds together, connect 6 of them with 5 0-ohm links (provided with your kit hopefully)
6) Sensor grounds go to the sensors! IAT, CHT, etc.
7) Solenoids run from 12v, not 5v, you don't get their power from the board.

More stuff probably, but I'm out of time, hopefully Andy or someone else fill the gaps.

Fred.

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Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:09 am
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masterkorp wrote:
On the fuel pump its great to know that I can activate the relay on the high side, since i wired all my relays like this, so i shall connect them like:

Fuel Pump
Image

So I connect the HSD to the 12V relay, and the FP is a ground that can be ECU ground right?

In the HSD FP LSD4 header block, you jumper from the FP pin in the center to the HSD pin to the left of the FP pin to select which output circuit to use for the fuel pump output from the MCU. Then you would connect the HSD pad that is below the jumper (by itself) to your fuel pump relay. The fuel pump relay ground should be connected to your chassis grounding point, not to the Jaguar PCB. You will need to connect the IGN-12v solder pad to a 12v source since this is used by the HSD output as the 12v supply and for the power to the output LEDs and for the injector LEDs.

masterkorp wrote:
Cam Angle Sensor

So the CAS connectivity should be like so:
Image

RPM1+ goes to the 120ª reference signal (black wire) and RPM0+ goes to the 1º signal?
PRM0- and RPM1- would go to a ground, can this be(or should be) the same ground that grounds the CAS sensor signal?

You can connect RPM0- and RPM1- to either the RPMx-Shield or Sensor-GND pads as these are electrically the same (they are connected to GND).

masterkorp wrote:
Ignition

Image

So this is will be the connectivity. I assume the places to connect are the Ignitor X and not the IG X one.
Any tips on how to merge the wires from the ignitor relays together?

IG1, IG2, IG3 and IG4 are pads to connect the MCU outputs to the ignitor driver circuit inputs. Ignitor1, Ignitor2, Ignitor3 and Ignitor4 are the outputs to your ignition system.
IG1 is already connected by a copper trace to MCU Port T2 output and IG2 is already connected by a copper trace to MCU Port T3 output.
You will need connect IG3 to the Port T4 (square ) pad in the Port T4-7 header.

masterkorp wrote:
Injectors

Image

So the RB injectors have 2 big common ground wires, I plan on splicing the wires and solder them onto the jaguar, is that ok? Or the ground must come explicity from each injector?
Also why is that surface on the injector ground connectors? Shall I solder the wires onto that surface and the hole?

You will want to connect one injector ground wire to INJ1-GND and the other injector ground wire to INJ3-GND. Next you will want to install the 0 ohm surface mount jumpers in the JP3, JP4, JP5, JP6 and JP7 positions.
The header labeled Injectors-IN (what you have in the blue rectangle) is the input to the injector driver output circuits. For your engine you would connect the MCU Port T5 pin (second pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the first two pins (pins 1 and 2) of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T6 pin (third pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 3 and 4 of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T7 pin (fourth pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 5 and 6 of the Injectors-IN header. This will setup the injector outputs for semi-sequential injection.
You will connect the INJ1-INJ6 solder pads to your injectors.

masterkorp wrote:
TPS and IAT,CHT and BRV

Image

So here I have the following questions:
- Where the power that goes to IAT and CHT comes from ?
- What are those GND and GND connections? Are they extra grounds to connect ground to the Jaguar?

Power for the sensor circuits comes from the Analog 5v regulator and the sensor to ground resistance is measured from the IAT/CHT solder pad to Sensor-GND.
GND and GND2 are the main ground connections for the PCB ground/voltage regulator grounds. These should be connected to either your battery ground or at the negative battery cable where it attaches to the head or block.

masterkorp wrote:
Wideband

Image

My wideband is Innovative MTX-L and it has an analog output that can be configurable, I can see where I can connect the 5V (vdc), but where do I connect the ground?

The output from your wideband will connect to the EGO solder pad and the output ground from your wideband will connect to any of the Sensor-GND solder pads.

masterkorp wrote:
AAC Idle and VTC solenoids

Image

I have no idea what I am doing here.

Would LSD go to the solenoids grounds ? Where do I get the 5V from?

The LSDx solder pads are the solenoid grounds, the other side of the solenoid would be connected to a 12v source not on the Jaguar PCB. To use LSD2 with the MCU Port K4 output, you will need to jumper the LSD2/PK4 header block. LSD2 is normally used (by default for FreeEMS firmware) for the radiator fan relay if used with the MCU Port K4 output. If you want to use another MCU output to activate LSD2, then you will need to jumper the round solder pad of the LSD2/PK4 header to another MCU output (ie: one of the Port B0-7 or Port P0-3 or Port P4-7 header pins). If you want to use the LSD1 output you will need to jumper the LSD1-IN solder pad to an MCU output (ie: one of the Port B0-7 or Port P0-3 or Port P4-7 header pins). If you want to use the LSD3 output you will need to jumper the LSD3-IN solder pad to an MCU output (ie: one of the Port B0-7 or Port P0-3 or Port P4-7 header pins). The LSDx-IN solder pads should be connected to an MCU output and the LSDx solder pads would be connected to a relay or solenoid that rated less than 6 amperes.

You will also need to connect the OUTPUT-GND solder pad to a high current ground on your engine head or block grounding point to be able to use the LSDx outputs. You will need to connect the IGN-12v solder pad to a 12v source since this is used by the HSD output as the 12v supply and for the power to the output LEDs and for the injector LEDs.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit...

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FreeEMS vehicle #11, 1932 Ford 5 Window Coupe with a 1996 GM 3.1L SFI V6 with DIS ignition
FreeEMS vehicle #16, 1996 Chevrolet S10 2.2L SFI I4 with DIS ignition
Owner of http://www.coolefi.com


Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:15 pm
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Hello, thank you for the in-depth replies:

Fred wrote:
1) You need to jumper your ignition Voltage sources (12v for std RB stuff)


So this connector in particular would take 12v into? Or, are you claiming that i can just send the power to the replay from the battery? Or Shall i get an additonal voltage regulator to 12v ?

Fred wrote:
2) You need to connect IG3 to the CPU T4 (IG1 and IG2 are already connected to T2 and T3)

DeuceEFI wrote:
IG1, IG2, IG3 and IG4 are pads to connect the MCU outputs to the ignitor driver circuit inputs. Ignitor1, Ignitor2, Ignitor3 and Ignitor4 are the outputs to your ignition system.
IG1 is already connected by a copper trace to MCU Port T2 output and IG2 is already connected by a copper trace to MCU Port T3 output.
You will need connect IG3 to the Port T4 (square ) pad in the Port T4-7 header.


So the Ignition is not complete? By T4 you you mean where it says Port T4-7 ? There are 4 pins there and one is square shaped.
Which one shall I connect it to, first one (square) right?

Image

Also, while looking at page 5 of 7 of the schematics, on the Ignitor Outputs, I noticed that there is a jumper o select between 5v and 12v. Do I need to anything to this?

Fred wrote:
3)You need to connect IG3 to the CPU T4 (IG1 and IG2 are already connected to T2 and T3)


I don't understand this part, could you explain me again?

Fred wrote:
7) Solenoids run from 12v, not 5v, you don't get their power from the board.


Do you recommend for this power 12v to be properly regulated? If so, what voltage regulator do you recommend ? What else would I need besides the voltage regulator?

DeuceEFI wrote:
You will want to connect one injector ground wire to INJ1-GND and the other injector ground wire to INJ3-GND. Next you will want to install the 0 ohm surface mount jumpers in the JP3, JP4, JP5, JP6 and JP7 positions.
The header labeled Injectors-IN (what you have in the blue rectangle) is the input to the injector driver output circuits. For your engine you would connect the MCU Port T5 pin (second pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the first two pins (pins 1 and 2) of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T6 pin (third pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 3 and 4 of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T7 pin (fourth pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 5 and 6 of the Injectors-IN header. This will setup the injector outputs for semi-sequential injection.
You will connect the INJ1-INJ6 solder pads to your injectors.


So, what is "the 0 ohm surface mount jumpers", are they some specific parts? Should have they came with the Jaguar Kit? Or by this you just meant wire?

For the the rest, let check if I understand:

Image

Also, while looking at page 5 of 7 of the schematics, on the Ignitor Outputs, I noticed that there is a jumper o select between 5v and 12v. Do I need to anything to this?

Fred wrote:
3)You need to connect IG3 to the CPU T4 (IG1 and IG2 are already connected to T2 and T3)


I don't understand this part, could you explain me again?

Fred wrote:
7) Solenoids run from 12v, not 5v, you don't get their power from the board.


Do you recommend for this power 12v to be properly regulated? If so, what voltage regulator do you recommend ? What else would I need besides the voltage regulator?

DeuceEFI wrote:
You will want to connect one injector ground wire to INJ1-GND and the other injector ground wire to INJ3-GND. Next you will want to install the 0 ohm surface mount jumpers in the JP3, JP4, JP5, JP6 and JP7 positions.
The header labeled Injectors-IN (what you have in the blue rectangle) is the input to the injector driver output circuits. For your engine you would connect the MCU Port T5 pin (second pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the first two pins (pins 1 and 2) of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T6 pin (third pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 3 and 4 of the Injectors-IN header. You would then connect the MCU Port T7 pin (fourth pad of the Port T4-7 header) to the pins 5 and 6 of the Injectors-IN header. This will setup the injector outputs for semi-sequential injection.
You will connect the INJ1-INJ6 solder pads to your injectors.


So, what is "the 0 ohm surface mount jumpers", are they some specific parts? Should have they came with the Jaguar Kit? Or by this you just meant wire?

For the the rest, let check if I understand:

Image

- So only after reading this, I noticed that the the Fuel Pump relay is part of the LSD4 circuit, is this right? If so, when choosing to control the fuel pump with the High Side Driver, can I use the LSD4 for another driver?
- Shall I connect IGN-12v to a regulated 12v source, or can I set the alternator voltage?

12v-SW

So I almost missed this one:

Image
This connects to 12v signal, I image its the key switch signal? Does the 12v need to be regulated, or alternator style voltage will suffice?

Also one last question:

I want to make a diagram with all the connection i need to do, is that a way that I can export the pin hole and labels location only to a diagram? So I can label stuff together?

Once again, thank you so much for you help.

Regards,


Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:32 pm
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Dude, you've explained the answers to at least two of your questions in different sentences/paragraphs.

Port T4-7 Port T T4 IGN3, arrows, pink writing, join these, be happy, post pic of joined stuff.

Ignition 12v source, the thing you noticed in the schematic is this. Post a pic of the jumper locations with a photochoped jumper and we'll give you an approval.

When someone says "12v" on a car, they typically mean unregulated battery. Your solenoids require a fused relayed 12v battery feed. You do not get this from the Jaguar, it's part of your wiring loom.

Your SW-12v should NOT come from the key. It should come from a fused relay connection from the battery or equivalent power distribution point near the battery fed by thick wires. The key should control this relay only, IE, the board is fed with clean 12v from a solid reliable source, not polluted 12v from your dash with fans and christ knows what in there.

A few tips to help you get more complete answers from me:

1) Post about one or two or three things at a time. More is hard to find time to reply to.
2) Post more frequently, say 1 week or so. This will help a lot with 1).
3) Finish processing your images before you post up. What do you want done with the broken image link?
4) Try to correlate stuff in the same post with other stuff in there and remove duplication/confusion prior to submitting. eg T4 and ign 12v jumpering.
5) Give me a call so we can talk through this stuff quickly and get rid of the worst misunderstandings prior to posting.

Hasta luego, tio.

Fredito.

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FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:14 am
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Fred wrote:
Dude, you've explained the answers to at least two of your questions in different sentences/paragraphs.

Sorry for this, I usually write my replys offline, and then paste into the forum, I did duplicated a lot of shit, and missed.

Fred wrote:
Port T4-7 Port T T4 IGN3, arrows, pink writing, join these, be happy, post pic of joined stuff.

Thanks!

Fred wrote:
Ignition 12v source, the thing you noticed in the schematic is this. Post a pic of the jumper locations with a photochoped jumper and we'll give you an approval.

My error of writing posts too long, bites me again. Which jumper are you refering too?

Fred wrote:
When someone says "12v" on a car, they typically mean unregulated battery. Your solenoids require a fused relayed 12v battery feed. You do not get this from the Jaguar, it's part of your wiring loom.

Thanks, DeuceEFI and Techsalvager (Hentai) also, confirmed this on IRC

Fred wrote:
Your SW-12v should NOT come from the key. It should come from a fused relay connection from the battery or equivalent power distribution point near the battery fed by thick wires. The key should control this relay only, IE, the board is fed with clean 12v from a solid reliable source, not polluted 12v from your dash with fans and christ knows what in there.

I have a relay set for this, I do aggress my dash is a mess :P

Fred wrote:
A few tips to help you get more complete answers from me:

1) Post about one or two or three things at a time. More is hard to find time to reply to.
2) Post more frequently, say 1 week or so. This will help a lot with 1).
3) Finish processing your images before you post up. What do you want done with the broken image link?
4) Try to correlate stuff in the same post with other stuff in there and remove duplication/confusion prior to submitting. eg T4 and ign 12v jumpering.
5) Give me a call so we can talk through this stuff quickly and get rid of the worst misunderstandings prior to posting.

Hasta luego, tio.

Fredito.

I would be very appreaciated if we could talk. I will do shorter, daily questions for now on.

Thank you guys for your help so far.

Regards,


Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:47 pm
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Injection setup

So I made a small skectch, Is this how I should jump my injection system for it to work on my RB?

Image

Also, I think I did not get the 0hm jumpers for the injector ground connections, how should they look?

Regards,


Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:03 pm
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Last post is perfect, in all respects, hook that stuff up. One way to do it is to pass the end of the wire through the board and back through the next hole. Make it a bit longer to achieve this. Consider servicability when laying it against the board (don't block headers, test points, etc).

0ohm links are just fancy bits of wire/blobs of solder. Use some thick house-wiring wire to bridge these appropriately. Join the 6 injector fet grounds together, and run at least two wires out of that group to your loom. This will be the equivalent of FIVE 0ohm links. Bend the wire subtly so it can't short stuff on the board out. Post a picture before soldering.

Previous post, which jumper? Find the ignition IC areas, and find three holes next to each other in each sub block. These.

Fred.

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Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:50 pm
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masterkorp wrote:
Also, while looking at page 5 of 7 of the schematics, on the Ignitor Outputs, I noticed that there is a jumper o select between 5v and 12v. Do I need to anything to this?

If you look in the upper right hand corner of the Jaguar PCB (holding it so you can read "Designed by Andy Goss" right side up) you will see JP1 and JP2 which are three position jumper blocks. The square pad at the top is 5v coming from the 5v-CPU regulator, the middle pad is the voltage selection going to the ignitor driver ICs and the lowest round hole is 12v coming from the IGN-12v input.

You will need to jumper from the middle round pad to either the square 5v pad at the top or the round 12v pad at the bottom of the jumper block depending on what voltage is required for your ignition system. For my GM HEI or DIS ignition modules this is jumpered to 5v. I don't recall what ignition system you are using, but I think Fred answered which voltage to use in a previous reply if you are using the standard RB ignition...

Cheers,

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Andy.
FreeEMS vehicle #11, 1932 Ford 5 Window Coupe with a 1996 GM 3.1L SFI V6 with DIS ignition
FreeEMS vehicle #16, 1996 Chevrolet S10 2.2L SFI I4 with DIS ignition
Owner of http://www.coolefi.com


Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:59 pm
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