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Masterkorp's Jaguar 0.4 alpha build. 
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LQFP112 - Up with the play
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:21 am
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Location: Ponte de Lima, Portugal
The solder is.
Attachment:
File comment: Solder description
DSC00585.JPG
DSC00585.JPG [ 617.74 KiB | Viewed 1518 times ]

The label is ripped off, but this is what I can make of it:
EN 9453 EN 2954
60Sn4??Pb 5N
1mm 1.1.3 B
250g 2.2%
Lol 2562

No idea what the above means.

Also I got the hang of it, if it preheat the part with the soldering iron 2 or 3 seconds then aplly the solder i can get a nice hot solder.

I ended up resoldering those connections specially the injector grounds, they look a lot better now.

Thank you for the input.


Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:09 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play
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So a few weeks back while trying to solder some connections my uglyx overtage fix desoldered as long with some components.

Here is a log on #freeems-ot of head burrial ceremony:
Quote:
271394 2014-04-06 15:46:37 masterkorp download/file.php?id=1436&mode=view
271395 2014-04-06 15:46:53 masterkorp damm those things are so small i can't even identify them
271396 2014-04-06 15:47:03 masterkorp DeuceEFI: around ?
271397 2014-04-06 15:47:20 @DeuceEFI hello masterkorp
271398 2014-04-06 15:48:21 masterkorp are those R106, R109 the same ?
271399 2014-04-06 15:48:30 masterkorp and R108 ?
271400 2014-04-06 15:50:11 @DeuceEFI R106 and R107 are 10K ohm, R108 is 330 ohm, R109 is 604 ohm
271401 2014-04-06 15:50:29 masterkorp are the resistors ?
271402 2014-04-06 15:50:32 masterkorp *they
271403 2014-04-06 15:50:39 @DeuceEFI yes, they are resistors
271404 2014-04-06 15:51:09 @DeuceEFI R106, R107 and R109 create a voltage divider circuit
271405 2014-04-06 15:51:26 @DeuceEFI R108 is a current limiting resistor
271406 2014-04-06 15:52:02 masterkorp they so small i can't solder them
271407 2014-04-06 15:52:14 masterkorp *they're
271408 2014-04-06 15:52:29 masterkorp can i get regular resistors and solder them there ?
271409 2014-04-06 15:54:48 @DeuceEFI you could, just make sure that R106, R107 and R109 are 0.1% resistors as the resistance is critical for setting up the voltage divider
271410 2014-04-06 15:55:01 @DeuceEFI 0.1% tolerance
271411 2014-04-06 15:55:43 masterkorp thanks. i will try to solder them, if i can do a decent circuit i will fallback to that
271412 2014-04-06 16:00:10 masterkorp and U13 ?
271413 2014-04-06 16:00:18 masterkorp i think i broke the connectors on it
271414 2014-04-06 16:01:36 masterkorp yeah i broke
271415 2014-04-06 16:01:37 masterkorp dammi
271416 2014-04-06 16:03:56 @DeuceEFI here is the TI information on U13, they do have larger versions: http://www.ti.com/product/tl431b
271417 2014-04-06 16:04:03 @diyefi-bot Voltage Reference - Shunt Voltage Reference - TL431B - TI.com
271418 2014-04-06 16:04:37 masterkorp thanks !
271419 2014-04-06 16:04:46 @DeuceEFI you're welcome
271420 2014-04-06 16:16:21 masterkorp now up to the heater core lines
271421 2014-04-06 16:19:43 hentai DeuceEFI, any new boards for sell?
271422 2014-04-06 16:33:16 @DeuceEFI not yet hentai, still finalizing the design, but we are really close :)
271423 2014-04-06 16:40:09 masterkorp fredcooke: do you know which ones of the heater core lines is the outlet and which is the inlet ?
271424 2014-04-06 16:40:47 hentai DeuceEFI, ok, no old stock?
271425 2014-04-06 16:41:14 masterkorp DeuceEFI: what tools do you use to place such small things in place ?
271426 2014-04-06 16:44:38 @DeuceEFI hentai, all the previous batch were sold
271427 2014-04-06 16:45:07 @DeuceEFI masterkorp, I use tweezers and a magnifying glass to place the small parts
271428 2014-04-06 16:45:13 @DeuceEFI by hand
271429 2014-04-06 16:45:18 @DeuceEFI bbl


PS saved for later editing


Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:18 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play
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Hello everyone,

This will probably win the award of the "resurrection of the year", but here it goes guys.

I've been building my patrol slowly but steadily, along with budget, work and just life in general, I do personally think that keeping doing the build was a major achievement for me. I do feel constantly tired, sometimes discouraged, but I do love what I do, so I keep doing it.
I always wanted to FreeEMS my truck (duh, obvious), I think nothing more than an off road truck that is used and harsh conditions to test the quality of it, and bring further improvements.

I recently acquired a fresh Jaguar 0.7 from DeuceEFI (thanks for your work btw), I know I cheated a little, but after this one, I do believe I will have plenty of opportunities to build., after all I do plan to have a spare ECU that I can just plug in case things go south.


This being said the engine was you know its an RB25DET, I am compiling the wiring and sensor information into this spreadsheet (password: FreeEMSisAwesome) in LibreOffice flat XML format. I will be keeping that as my main wiring documentation.

Whith this, here go the questions:

How is Cam Angle Sensor support?
I know this is an ongoing development, I'd like to know what is necessary for me to do? Do I need any extra circuit logic? I know that Robs Skyline is a work in progressat the moment.

How can I configure the outputs to be either 12v or 5V?
All the actuators on the RB25DET are 12 voltz (i may be wrong), is this hard coded option on the code? Can I be changed by the tuner ?

Does the Boost/Idle/TCC need any work in order to work with RB AAC valve?
I like to have a clean idle, this important for the slow crawling areas.

Can I raise the idle on demand?Can I raise the idle on demand?[/b]
Since this engine was from an auto car (correct me if i am wrong) , the throttle body, has the throttle position sensor, Wide Open Throttle Switch, but also a close throttle switch (or Idle SW as the service manual refers it too). I would like to use the Idle SW to open the FCID valve (Idle raise for the AC), and raise the Idle "automagically" to a set RPM when I want. I could just relay the just connect the Idle SW to the FCID Valve and just relay it trough a switch, but I am not sure how this can affect the overall ECU behaviour.

Can BRV just be connected to the same source has the power supply source?
I have a key switched relay that powers the ECU do I need to run any additional power to the ecu?

What do I need to know about the Injectors?
They're the stock ones, how can I extract data from it them and "make them do the thing"? How can I know the dweell times?

What do I need to know about the Ignition?
I know firing order, I have the resistance readings. How to I setup the wasted spark circuit?

Is the fuel pump relay activator 5V or 12V?
This may be a stupid question, but then again there no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

Anything I should know/do with the knock sensors?
I will be wiring them onto the ECU anyways, but what is currently possible to log with them?

Any hardware modification I should do?
I think besides the heatsinks that's it, i am ready to go.

Is there anything else I am missing?
Any extra advice will very welcome.

Regards,
Alfredo Palhares


Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:27 pm
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Come on people, hook the man up! Heaps of you know this stuff. Save me some precious time and leave only the hard ones for me.

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Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:43 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:54 pm
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Location: South Africa
To start the ball rolling.... Fuel pump works by grounding the relay, and has its own ground for this purpose. BRV - yes, just don't use anything that might get voltage drops across it. I'll leave the rest to the more knowledgeable.


Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:02 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:37 pm
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Location: New Zealand
Hi Alfredo,

Nice project. Will answer as best I can.

masterkorp wrote:
How is Cam Angle Sensor support?
I know this is an ongoing development, I'd like to know what is necessary for me to do? Do I need any extra circuit logic? I know that Robs Skyline is a work in progressat the moment.

The decoder is still in development. It runs my car but is not perfect yet. Will hopefully be in releasable condition soon.
If you build the Jaguar with components for hall sensor inputs it will work fine with the RB CAS. Just make sure you connect RPM0- and RPM1- to 0V so you don't get stuck scratching your head like I did.

masterkorp wrote:
How can I configure the outputs to be either 12v or 5V?
All the actuators on the RB25DET are 12 voltz (i may be wrong), is this hard coded option on the code? Can I be changed by the tuner ?

All the required outputs for the factory setup are low side driven except for the ignition outputs which are indeed 12 volts. When you build your Jaguar set the ignition jumpers to 12V and that should be all you need to do unless you have something custom going on.

masterkorp wrote:
Does the Boost/Idle/TCC need any work in order to work with RB AAC valve?
I like to have a clean idle, this important for the slow crawling areas.

All the solenoids/actuators are low side driven/pull to 0v active. Not sure what TCC is but if you mean tacho I am low side driving mine and it works.

masterkorp wrote:
Can I raise the idle on demand?Can I raise the idle on demand?[/b]
Since this engine was from an auto car (correct me if i am wrong) , the throttle body, has the throttle position sensor, Wide Open Throttle Switch, but also a close throttle switch (or Idle SW as the service manual refers it too). I would like to use the Idle SW to open the FCID valve (Idle raise for the AC), and raise the Idle "automagically" to a set RPM when I want. I could just relay the just connect the Idle SW to the FCID Valve and just relay it trough a switch, but I am not sure how this can affect the overall ECU behaviour.

If you switch on the FICD to raise the idle the ECU won't be bothered as long it is performing open loop idle control. If it is operating in a closed loop mode which I'm not sure is an option currently then it would try and use the AAC to lower the RPM back to its original set point and could end up fighting the FICD unless the idle speed set point is raised also.

masterkorp wrote:
Can BRV just be connected to the same source has the power supply source?
I have a key switched relay that powers the ECU do I need to run any additional power to the ecu?

The BRV input shouldn't share its connection to the battery with any high current or noisy devices. This will give a clean BRV signal and prevent erratic ignition dwell and injector deadtimes etc. Same goes for grounding. Separate out any output grounds from sensor grounds as you don't want the sensor signals being effected by your outputs.
As long as all the 12V+ supply pins are connected to the relay that should be all you need.

masterkorp wrote:
What do I need to know about the Injectors?
They're the stock ones, how can I extract data from it them and "make them do the thing"? How can I know the dweell times?

I still have stock ones too. They're meant to be 370cc. Hoping to characterise the deadtimes with a scope and current sensor on the car when I get to tuning. Will share the info when I have it.

masterkorp wrote:
What do I need to know about the Ignition?
I know firing order, I have the resistance readings. How to I setup the wasted spark circuit?

My setup for wasted spark:
Jag IGN1 -> RB IG1/IGN6
Jag IGN2 -> RB IG5/IGN2
Jag IGN3 -> RB IG3/IGN4

I shorted R91, R92 and R100 with copper leads and added 6 external (external to the Jaguar board) resistors, one for each coil. This probably is not required though.

masterkorp wrote:
Is the fuel pump relay activator 5V or 12V?
This may be a stupid question, but then again there no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

The fuel pump relay on the factory setup is low side driven by the ECU. Hook it up to the FP output on the Jaguar and select LSD4 with the jumper.

masterkorp wrote:
Anything I should know/do with the knock sensors?
I will be wiring them onto the ECU anyways, but what is currently possible to log with them?

The Jaguar doesn't have anything to condition the knock sensor signals and I'm not sure if knock detection/logging is in the software yet.

masterkorp wrote:
Any hardware modification I should do?
I think besides the heatsinks that's it, i am ready to go.

If you mean modifications to the Jaguar board/components itself then none should be required as long as you have your crank input sensor circuits setup for hall sensors.

masterkorp wrote:
Is there anything else I am missing?
Any extra advice will very welcome.

Not sure if your setup is still running an ECCS relay. Doesn't sound like it as you mentioned you have a key switched relay powering the ECU earlier. If it is then you need to be able to power it up when the key is in the ignition on position. I have a MOSFET switched on by the ignition switch which activates the ECCS relay in my setup.
You are not running a factory fuel pump setup so you shouldn't have to worry about the Fuel Pump Control Module. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Can't think of anything else right now.

Have attached the current schematic of my system for you to refer to. Hope it makes some of my answers more clear.


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R33JagAdapter.pdf [220.6 KiB]
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Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:28 pm
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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I will take a crack at answering your questions:

masterkorp wrote:
How is Cam Angle Sensor support?
I know this is an ongoing development, I'd like to know what is necessary for me to do? Do I need any extra circuit logic? I know that Robs Skyline is a work in progressat the moment.

As far as I know you shouldn't need any additional circuit logic, But Rob or Fred may have more information on what they did for Rob's Skyline.

masterkorp wrote:
How can I configure the outputs to be either 12v or 5V?
All the actuators on the RB25DET are 12 volts (i may be wrong), is this hard coded option on the code? Can I be changed by the tuner ?

All of the outputs from the Jaguar PCB are Low Side Drivers (they switch to ground/earth), except for the one High Side Driver (which can be setup to supply either 5v or 12v).

masterkorp wrote:
Can I raise the idle on demand?Can I raise the idle on demand?
Since this engine was from an auto car (correct me if i am wrong) , the throttle body, has the throttle position sensor, Wide Open Throttle Switch, but also a close throttle switch (or Idle SW as the service manual refers it too). I would like to use the Idle SW to open the FCID valve (Idle raise for the AC), and raise the Idle "automagically" to a set RPM when I want. I could just relay the just connect the Idle SW to the FCID Valve and just relay it trough a switch, but I am not sure how this can affect the overall ECU behaviour.

You would need to work with the firmware developer(s) to add support for this feature.

masterkorp wrote:
Can BRV just be connected to the same source has the power supply source?
I have a key switched relay that powers the ECU do I need to run any additional power to the ecu?

Technically you could, but best practice is to connect the BRV input to the battery through either a switch or relay. You want to measure the actual battery voltage which the injectors will use so that the firmware can model their behavior correctly.

masterkorp wrote:
What do I need to know about the Injectors?
They're the stock ones, how can I extract data from it them and "make them do the thing"? How can I know the dwell times?

You can search the Internet to see if someone has posted their specifications (ie: the manufacturer or a company that tests injectors (http://www.witchhunter.com), send them out to be tested or test them yourself if you have the means to do so.

masterkorp wrote:
What do I need to know about the Ignition?
I know firing order, I have the resistance readings. How to I setup the wasted spark circuit?

This would depend on your coil setup ("dumb" coils or "smart" logic level coils). IGN1 and IGN2 outputs from the Jaguar can be used with "smart" logic level coils.

masterkorp wrote:
Is the fuel pump relay activator 5V or 12V?
This may be a stupid question, but then again there no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

You can use either a Low Side Driver (switched to ground/earth) or a High Side Driver (supply either 5v or 12v) to activate your fuel pump relay.

masterkorp wrote:
Anything I should know/do with the knock sensors?
I will be wiring them onto the ECU anyways, but what is currently possible to log with them?

There is not a dedicated knock sensor input on the Jaguar, you would need to build a custom input circuit and use the SPR1 analog input. You would need to work with the firmware developer(s) to add support for the knock sensor.

masterkorp wrote:
Any hardware modification I should do?
I think besides the heatsinks that's it, i am ready to go.

See the comments above.

Hopefully this helps :)

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Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:39 pm
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As for injector data you also may look at this:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm


Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:25 pm
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for the injectors if this is a nissan vehicle reference the injectors and what they came in. There is tons of trial software for nissan tuning that can let you peak at the stock settings like dead times to see what they were set at. Provided they have a map\def for your ecu


Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:13 am
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masterkorp wrote:
How is Cam Angle Sensor support?
I know this is an ongoing development, I'd like to know what is necessary for me to do? Do I need any extra circuit logic? I know that Robs Skyline is a work in progressat the moment.

As the others said, hall/opto sensor config as per the detailed instructions in the schematic, and let us know when you are ready for some code.

masterkorp wrote:
Does the Boost/Idle/TCC need any work in order to work with RB AAC valve?
I like to have a clean idle, this important for the slow crawling areas.

Nothing special to do except hook them to an appropriate FET, and jumper the input of the FET to an appropriate pin for the purpose. PWM is a good GP output pin set, use the odd values first IIRC as they are the 16 bit ones (4 max, or 8 8 bit or some combo).

masterkorp wrote:
Can I raise the idle on demand?Can I raise the idle on demand?[/b]
Since this engine was from an auto car (correct me if i am wrong) , the throttle body, has the throttle position sensor, Wide Open Throttle Switch, but also a close throttle switch (or Idle SW as the service manual refers it too). I would like to use the Idle SW to open the FCID valve (Idle raise for the AC), and raise the Idle "automagically" to a set RPM when I want. I could just relay the just connect the Idle SW to the FCID Valve and just relay it trough a switch, but I am not sure how this can affect the overall ECU behaviour.

Corbon wrote:
If you switch on the FICD to raise the idle the ECU won't be bothered as long it is performing open loop idle control. If it is operating in a closed loop mode which I'm not sure is an option currently then it would try and use the AAC to lower the RPM back to its original set point and could end up fighting the FICD unless the idle speed set point is raised also.

DeuceEFI wrote:
You would need to work with the firmware developer(s) to add support for this feature.

Think about this later. However if you're using SD algorithm, you can bleed extra air in any time and it'll just up the RPM. Many ways to do this, with PWM idle valve, with manual tap, and other methods. You'll probably find the stock PWM idle valve under the back of the inlet manifold to be sufficient for your needs. A simple on/off solenoid controlled by a switch on the dash would suffice for an idle up control.

@Rob, they can't fight each other, PWM would just close and control loop would max out, and it'd exceed target by whatever.

masterkorp wrote:
Can BRV just be connected to the same source has the power supply source?
I have a key switched relay that powers the ECU do I need to run any additional power to the ecu?

The Jaguar has 3 12V inputs. CPU, BRV, IGN/HSD/LEDs. The first one draws a little current, but not much, the second one draws near no current, and requires a clean signal, the third one draws either a little current, or a lot of current, and has noisy switching stuff on it. You can get away with joining them all together. You probably should get away with joining CPU and BRV together, and running a separate wire to the battery (via a relay) for the IGN/HSD/LEDs feed. If the relay was attached directly to the battery terminal, runnign three wires to the relay would be fine. If the relay was attached to the ECU, then it's not fine. And some continuum in between. The thickness of the wire from the relay to the battery affects the possible strategies, too.

Corbon wrote:
The BRV input shouldn't share its connection to the battery with any high current or noisy devices.

Right, and the LEDs and ignition drivers and HSD can be counted as noisy, even if not very noisy in two cases.

DeuceEFI wrote:
Technically you could, but best practice is to connect the BRV input to the battery through either a switch or relay. You want to measure the actual battery voltage which the injectors will use so that the firmware can model their behavior correctly.

Needs to be a relay to minimise runs. Switch would be ignition which is shared with noisy stuff. Probably a good time to validate that he has connected this relay to a quality source, not a random source like key or dash supply etc.

Corbon wrote:
I still have stock ones too. They're meant to be 370cc. Hoping to characterise the deadtimes with a scope and current sensor on the car when I get to tuning. Will share the info when I have it.

That probably won't give you the result you want, sadly. Worth experimenting with. I have a device that can be used to generate a curve shape, and the height of the curve can be generated with lambda shifts and a wideband at low flows.

Corbon wrote:
I shorted R91, R92 and R100 with copper leads and added 6 external (external to the Jaguar board) resistors, one for each coil. This probably is not required though.

It is required, really. These are current devices, so you'd be bound to get an imbalance (possibly large) without these resistors doing their own thing.

Quote:
The Jaguar doesn't have anything to condition the knock sensor signals and I'm not sure if knock detection/logging is in the software yet.

No, no knock anything, yet. It's quite easy, and not useful on a high power setup, and only useful on a low power setup with inconsistent fuel and no margin for error.

DeuceEFI wrote:
except for the one High Side Driver (which can be setup to supply either 5v or 12v).

I thought that was linked to the whole LED and ignition setup? So if you had 12V ignition, you can't have 5V HSD? Am I wrong. CBF checking right now. Also LEDs will glow dim with 5v. :-)

Quote:
This would depend on your coil setup ("dumb" coils or "smart" logic level coils). IGN1 and IGN2 outputs from the Jaguar can be used with "smart" logic level coils.

Hmmmm, I don't like hearing logic level coils be called smart. There are quite a few types of ignitors/coils out there. Some are actually smart, others are just convenient.

  1. just coil + just transistor ignitor = dumb as they get
  2. just coil + logic level transistor ignitor = easier to use
  3. coil with built in transistor ignitor = dumb as they get, same as 1
  4. coil with built in logic level transistor ignitor = easier to use, same as 2
  5. logic level transistor setups may incorporate protection/current limit/overdwell protection which can fire the coil prematurely. This could be called smart, but isn't actually smart, just safe, eg LS1 coils
  6. logic level transistor ignitor with actual dwell control built in and protection - this is what i call smart, and is horrible to use with a standalone. Yes, these actually exist in various forms. The ECU fires the spark, and the ignitor turns on early enough by itself to be fired at a good time with good dwell based on prior events.
Someone might come back with more details/corrections, but this isn't too far off.

DeuceEFI][quote="masterkorp wrote:
Is the fuel pump relay activator 5V or 12V?
This may be a stupid question, but then again there no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

You can use either a Low Side Driver (switched to ground/earth) or a High Side Driver (supply either 5v or 12v) to activate your fuel pump relay.[/quote]
You can use either, yes, however you have to use what matches your wiring. Typically you send a fused 12V to the relay feed pin, and a switched fused 12V to the relay coil, and ground it with the ECU such that both key AND ECU control the pump with an AND relationship.

Thanks to everyone who helped! :-)

_________________
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FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
The ever growing list of FreeEMS success stories!


Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:42 pm
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