DIYEFI.org Forum

Hi,

I'd like to build a DIY FreeEMS to install into my car (a 92' Ford Sierra, will make a topic about it). For now I'm reading a lot of topics of another builds like Ravage, Jaguar, CatPower... to get ideas.

Currently It has the stock engine 2.0 8v converted to turbo with a Megasquirt I. It's using Wasted spark and semi-sequential injection.

My future engine will be a 6 cylinder 2.9 24v from a ford scorpio (BOB engine). As stock It's fully sequential with wasted spark. I'd like to convert to turbo. So as my MS1 is getting a little tiny for my desires and I don't like many things of the Megasquirt project I decided to no buy a MS2 or MS3 and build a FreeEMS instead . I've to check if it uses high or low-z injectors. I know that for low-z are problematic (I used a set in the past with the MS1 and gave me many noise problems).

so, what I'd like to have:
-Semi-sequential injection, but wired fully sequential, as I know that currently is not supported but probably will be in a future.
-Wasted-spark. But reserving space and components to a future possible COP.

I'm not sure, but I think the new engine has a VR sensor in the crank pulley with a 60-2 wheel and also a sensor in a camshaft to the fully seq injection.
I've two MAX9926, one is in my MS1 (as the stock system is a sh*t with noisy VR sensors) and the another is without use so that could be enough for the VR sensor.

- could be nice also to have a second serial port for sending data to an Arduino I've installed into my car to show data through two LCDs in the dash.

- boost control? Now I'm using the open loop one from the MS1 as the closed loop is very bad but that gives me the problem that the turbo don't give the same pressure every time.

- idle valve PWM control.

- that's not really needed, but could be nice to have EGT logging hardware, but it's expensive.

- launch control, flat shift and ALS. There are not really needed (specially the ALS), but it's nice to have

- Knock detection: As is a daily driving car and will have a turbo engine with high CR and I don't use the same fuel every day and my tune skills probably are not very good. So could be a nice option.

I made a few experiments with a TPIC8101 connected to an Arduino. I was able to program it through the SPI port but I didn't too much tests (one is soldered and the another is on a protoboard):



In the pic you can see my cheap logic analyser from ebay. Doesn't works bad.



Here is the board I'm going to use:


I'm waiting for a BDM programmer that should arrive next week.

Here a lot of material I've waiting to be used (resistors, caps, transistors,zeners..)



Anyway I've to buy a lot of mosfets, IGBTs a few boards to solder the components, connectors..

which one do you recommend to me ?

for injection mosfets (TO-251) VND14NV04-1 similar to Ravage uses?

for ignition.. a set of BIP373? Or some bigger IGBTs drived by TC4427 or similar driver?

for the connector. I don't know what I want, but I know what I don't want: A DB27 printer connector. I want something robust easy to weld and cheap


Prior to start making some schematics I need to read more and know which components use for everything. I'm opening this thread to force me researching more on this, as I don't have too much free time and I let time to pass without starting this project..

Aitor! Que pasa, hombre? Long time no see!

If possible I'd *strongly* suggest that you get your DIY FreeEMS up and running on your existing 4 cyl turbo engine and debug and learn about it there. New engine + new EMS = recipe for "disastros emergencia ruin <snip> tragedia" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abFJuqp867g

I don't like many things of the Megasquirt project I decided to no buy a MS2 or MS3 and build a FreeEMS instead :)

It's not just you that feels this way. Join our support group today and receive your next order absolutely free! <3

I've to check if it uses high or low-z injectors. I know that for low-z are problematic (I used a set in the past with the MS1 and gave me many noise problems).

They don't have to give you noise problems, however they are a painisimo in the culito. You can just use or build a resistor box to enable use of simple FET drivers, though.

so, what I'd like to have:
-Semi-sequential injection, but wired fully sequential, as I know that currently is not supported but probably will be in a future.
-Wasted-spark. But reserving space and components to a future possible COP.

Perfect! I was just ranting about this to someone else! Your attitude is stellar! :-)

I'm not sure, but I think the new engine has a VR sensor in the crank pulley with a 60-2 wheel and also a sensor in a camshaft to the fully seq injection.

60-2 is currently pretty limited (~3k RPM), and there is no missing tooth + cam sync support yet, but you don't need it right now anyway. 60-2 support will be improved soon enough, so don't worry about that too much.

could be nice also to have a second serial port for sending data to an Arduino I've installed into my car to show data through two LCDs in the dash.

As discussed, tap into the CPU TX line and just listen to what comes to you.

boost control? Now I'm using the open loop one from the MS1 as the closed loop is very bad but that gives me the problem that the turbo don't give the same pressure every time.

Open loop PWM just like MS1 is easy to do (a few minutes coding). Closed loop can come later.

- idle valve PWM control.

Ditto, open easy, closed later.

- that's not really needed, but could be nice to have EGT logging hardware, but it's expensive.

Easy if you have the hardware.

- launch control, flat shift and ALS. There are not really needed (specially the ALS), but it's nice to have :twisted:

Launch is easy if you mean two-step limiter. Flat shift likely also easy. ALS you'll need to start a thread on your desires for.

Knock detection: As is a daily driving car and will have a turbo engine with high CR and I don't use the same fuel every day and my tune skills probably are not very good. So could be a nice option.

I made a few experiments with a TPIC8101 connected to an Arduino. I was able to program it through the SPI port but I didn't too much tests (one is soldered and the another is on a protoboard):

Cool :-) You can help develop support once you're up and running, en eso caso, si quieres.

for injection mosfets (TO-251) VND14NV04-1 similar to Ravage uses?

For high-z or resistor box + low-z, yes. For low-z proper, Jean's board in a box in the engine bay.

for ignition.. a set of BIP373? Or some bigger IGBTs driven by TC4427 or similar driver?

Strongly recommend getting OEM ignitors and using them in the engine bay driven by TC4427 or similar. Will do a thread on this soon. You can use BIP373 or IGBTs, but in all cases, drive them with a decent IC like the TC4427.

for the connector. I don't know what I want, but I know what I don't want: A DB27 printer connector. I want something robust easy to weld and cheap :lol2:

Consider Molex Mini-fit Jnr connectors, or compatible. Very cheap, good current, good soldering space. Down side is: pretty long. "nice" connectors aren't at all cheap.

PS, drag your arse over here before the end of summer and pay Isa and I a visit.

Fred.

I got in house the BDM programmer, will try this weekend to start playing with the programmer and the board.

Fred wrote:Aitor! Que pasa, hombre? Long time no see!

If possible I'd *strongly* suggest that you get your DIY FreeEMS up and running on your existing 4 cyl turbo engine and debug and learn about it there. New engine + new EMS = recipe for "disastros emergencia ruin <snip> tragedia" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abFJuqp867g

Yes, probably will be better to do at this way.

I don't like many things of the Megasquirt project I decided to no buy a MS2 or MS3 and build a FreeEMS instead

It's not just you that feels this way. Join our support group today and receive your next order absolutely free! <3

I've to check if it uses high or low-z injectors. I know that for low-z are problematic (I used a set in the past with the MS1 and gave me many noise problems).

They don't have to give you noise problems, however they are a painisimo in the culito. You can just use or build a resistor box to enable use of simple FET drivers, though.

They should be high impedance, so perfect. And when I will had to buy new injectors for the turbo, I will also look for high impedance.

so, what I'd like to have:
-Semi-sequential injection, but wired fully sequential, as I know that currently is not supported but probably will be in a future.
-Wasted-spark. But reserving space and components to a future possible COP.

Perfect! I was just ranting about this to someone else! Your attitude is stellar!

I'm not sure, but I think the new engine has a VR sensor in the crank pulley with a 60-2 wheel and also a sensor in a camshaft to the fully seq injection.

60-2 is currently pretty limited (~3k RPM), and there is no missing tooth + cam sync support yet, but you don't need it right now anyway. 60-2 support will be improved soon enough, so don't worry about that too much.

ok, no problem. My current 2.0 engine has a 36-1. is this fully supported?

could be nice also to have a second serial port for sending data to an Arduino I've installed into my car to show data through two LCDs in the dash.

As discussed, tap into the CPU TX line and just listen to what comes to you.

ok, no problem here.

boost control? Now I'm using the open loop one from the MS1 as the closed loop is very bad but that gives me the problem that the turbo don't give the same pressure every time.

Open loop PWM just like MS1 is easy to do (a few minutes coding). Closed loop can come later.

- idle valve PWM control.

Ditto, open easy, closed later.

- that's not really needed, but could be nice to have EGT logging hardware, but it's expensive.

Easy if you have the hardware.

ok, nice

- launch control, flat shift and ALS. There are not really needed (specially the ALS), but it's nice to have

Launch is easy if you mean two-step limiter. Flat shift likely also easy. ALS you'll need to start a thread on your desires for.

I saw in facebook something about two-step limiter LC hehe

I think I will not really need the ALS with the V6 as is a torquey engine as stock. I felt the need a year ago with an old engine with low CR..without turbo it was very slow. In my current 2.0 turbo, it has less lag as is with stock CR and has more torque without boost. Only miss ALS in a slalom, for example that you are braking a lot.

Knock detection: As is a daily driving car and will have a turbo engine with high CR and I don't use the same fuel every day and my tune skills probably are not very good. So could be a nice option.

I made a few experiments with a TPIC8101 connected to an Arduino. I was able to program it through the SPI port but I didn't too much tests (one is soldered and the another is on a protoboard):

Cool You can help develop support once you're up and running, en eso caso, si quieres.

Yes, could be nice. Tomorrow I will end with my final degree project, so will have more free time to play with this kind of things.

for injection mosfets (TO-251) VND14NV04-1 similar to Ravage uses?

For high-z or resistor box + low-z, yes. For low-z proper, Jean's board in a box in the engine bay.

If I don't find this ones, cdo you have another reference of equivalent mosfets?

for ignition.. a set of BIP373? Or some bigger IGBTs driven by TC4427 or similar driver?

Strongly recommend getting OEM ignitors and using them in the engine bay driven by TC4427 or similar. Will do a thread on this soon. You can use BIP373 or IGBTs, but in all cases, drive them with a decent IC like the TC4427.

Ok, will wait then for your thread. As I don't know a lot with OEM ignitors. The V6 engine as stock uses the ford EDIS.

for the connector. I don't know what I want, but I know what I don't want: A DB27 printer connector. I want something robust easy to weld and cheap

Consider Molex Mini-fit Jnr connectors, or compatible. Very cheap, good current, good soldering space. Down side is: pretty long. "nice" connectors aren't at all cheap.

oh, that's nice, no problem. I like them.

PS, drag your arse over here before the end of summer and pay Isa and I a visit.

Fred.

yep, will try

They should be high impedance, so perfect. And when I will had to buy new injectors for the turbo, I will also look for high impedance.

Ask Merp and Teknique and someone else around here, in IRC. They have some good advice to give.

ok, no problem. My current 2.0 engine has a 36-1. is this fully supported?

To around 5k, or a bit more. Purely temporary limitation.

If I don't find this ones, cdo you have another reference of equivalent mosfets?

Anything logic-level and with low enough RDSON (200mOhm absolute max) and high enough voltage (40 if clamped, 100 if not) and the more protection, the better. Link it here and we can check.

Ok, will wait then for your thread. As I don't know a lot with OEM ignitors. The V6 engine as stock uses the ford EDIS.

EDIS and NOT 36-1? Are you SURE it's 60-2? As for OEM ignitors, they're cheap, easy, reliable, effective, and go in the right place, IE, not the EMS. Bug me if I don't post...

If I don't find this ones, cdo you have another reference of equivalent mosfets?

Anything logic-level and with low enough RDSON (200mOhm absolute max) and high enough voltage (40 if clamped, 100 if not) and the more protection, the better. Link it here and we can check.

Will order many VND14NV04 online as I didn't found anything similar in local shops. Only non-protected ones, so I prefer to get the nice ones.

EDIS and NOT 36-1? Are you SURE it's 60-2? As for OEM ignitors, they're cheap, easy, reliable, effective, and go in the right place, IE, not the EMS. Bug me if I don't post...

No, I'm not sure, I was told that from a forum guy...But asked to a friend who has this same engine out of a car and told me that it should have around 30-40 dents, So it's very probably to be a 36-1 . And looking for it in another forums It should be a 36-1.
Anyway I will check it when removing the engine out of the scorpio.


I've a question about fuelling. In my country (Galicia) we only have one place were to get E85 (is in Santiago de Compostela). So I can't use it a lot. I only use it on days I know I will use very hard my car. So I have to enrich the mix around 30% and increase crank PW. The problem are the next fuellings when mixing E85 and regular 98 octane petrol. Do you think with FreeEMS we can use a sensor like saab uses to detect the ethanol percentage and automatically correct fuel and ignition?

If it was easier to change config between 98 octane and E85 (and mixings) I'd lik to use it more.

The problem is that I think those sensors are very expensive. for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-GM-OEM-Fuel ... 1130124550

There's cheaper sensors on market. Claimed to be electrically identical to old GM sensor you linked.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/281066102838

johu wrote:There's cheaper sensors on market. Claimed to be electrically identical to old GM sensor you linked.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/281066102838

That sensor could be affordable, thanks for the info.

I will closely follow this integration of flexfuel tuning with sensor because I'm in your situation

AiToR51 wrote:That sensor could be affordable, thanks for the info. ;)

It's also used by VAG so you might be able to source it locally. Try searching A2C53344228 or 06H907811A.

VOLKSWAGEN 06H907811A IS USED IN THE CATALOGUES:

• VOLKSWAGEN / ARGENTINA / PASSAT/4MOTION [PA] / 2011 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / ARGENTINA / PASSAT/4MOTION [PA] / 2012 / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / ARGENTINA / PASSAT/4MOTION [PA] / 2013 / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / EUROPE / PASSAT/4MOTION/SANTANA [PA] / 2011 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / EUROPE / PASSAT/4MOTION/SANTANA [PA] / 2012 / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / EUROPE / PASSAT/4MOTION/SANTANA [PA] / 2013 [3C-D-000 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / SOUTH AFRICA / PASSAT/VARIANT/4MOTION [PA] / 2011 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / SOUTH AFRICA / PASSAT/VARIANT/4MOTION [PA] / 2012 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / SOUTH AFRICA / PASSAT/VARIANT/4MOTION [PA] / 2013 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / BRAZIL / PASSAT/VARIANT [PA] / 2011 [3C-B-200 001 >>] / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / BRAZIL / PASSAT/VARIANT [PA] / 2012 / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION
  VOLKSWAGEN / BRAZIL / PASSAT/VARIANT [PA] / 2013 / ELECTRICS / 90600. IMPULSE SENDER; SENSOR FOR ETHANOL; CONCENTRATION

Here there aren't many new cars in junkyards. And the few that are have prohibitive prices.


Anyway, good news, thanks to Fred of installing the SM in my card I was able of installing the firmware and connect it to EMStudio. I'm going to start building the DIY board using Ravage schemas for most of the circuits.