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Widebands That You Would or Wouldn't Buy 
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 302
I have used several LC-2 units, and couple LM-2's

The only reason I would use a innovate is for the LM-2 with its datalogging and obd-2 capabilities.
Otherwise I have found reliability of innovate widebands to be terrible. Unit wise and end up seeing o2 sensors being put out of life eariler than one expects.

Basically I don't recommend any innovate widebands due to my past issues.

I have on my car an AEM guage wideband that hasn't given me much issues on terms of working. Main issue was I ended up breaking a part on the controller. There is a variable resisitor inside that is turned by using a small flat screw driver, eventually I broke this and replaced it with a part from radio shack. Its used to change display modes and output modes.

AEM gauge controllers are ok, nice bright display, AFR for gasoline or lambda

NGK AFX
I have seen two of these units on two different vehicles both being in long term use an holding up very well.
I plan to grab one of these later based on that info and as well hearing that they have technology from ECM behind them.


Now of course I have no professional expercince past using them for tuning.
I couldn't tell which one is truly off by X ammount, etc.

-1 innovate's
+1 AEM Guage controller
+1 NGK AFX


Last edited by Fred on Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Replace "gas" by "gasoline"



Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:22 am
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QFP80 - Contributor

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:07 am
Posts: 37
Fred wrote:
That "wideband wizard" title I gave you is certainly fitting! :-)


I totally agree! i'm in love with my 4 spartans!


Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:34 am
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:35 pm
Posts: 302
My suggestion for this thread is if anyone wants to post here they should include their experince with it at a min and not just say "wideband X sucks".
They should explain why "wideband X sucks or is good" atleast before it getting added to the list imo.


Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:13 am
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:37 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Manhattan, KS. USA
PLX advert: The future of sensor technology is here!

I've had some grievances with PLX. Posting this mostly for the PR shock and awe.

Edit: The page title says, "A game changer in wideband!" Would love to hear Alan's thoughts on such a bold claim.


-Jeff

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Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:42 pm
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
Posts: 241
Location: Toronto Canada
Hard to see the forest from the trees without further information, the manuals on their website is for gen 2 stuff, so there is no additional information available. I am interested on how they estimate sensor life. The reaction time is going to be debatable, they use a PID controller and so depending on your threshold for oscillations you could come up with vastly different numbers. If there is a metric that should be shown is sensor temperature, sensor life and reaction time is a subjective thing where as sensor temperature is more objective and more useful.

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Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:22 am
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:10 am
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I have to agree. Sensor temperature is probably the most important diagnostic data. The sensors deal ok with a bit of overheating. But, running them cold SERIOUSLY reduces sensor life. That's why I kinda worry about the new Innovate LC-2.

With the sensor just sitting out in the air, it is only pulling about 600ma @ 13.8v while all of the other widebands I tested are around 1 amp, in the same situation. A quick look at the Bosch LSU4.2 spec says that this is not enough power. i.e. the sensor is cold. But, this might only be true in this specific situation ?

Running the sensor cold with an engine that has a lot of variability in EGT almost certainly puts a lot of thermal stress on the sensor's ceramic element.

I was looking at the "Endurance Run" section of the Bosch spec, where they show the EGT varying from 500C to 800C . With the sensor kept at it's minimum specified operating temp of 750C it only varies ( heat soak ) by 50C (750C - 800C ). But, if the sensor is only kept at a minimum of 650C , it sees 3X the temperature change ( 650C - 800C ) over the same cycle.

I was thinking that this could be the source of all of the "Error 8" problems. Assuming that the other Innovate controllers have the same issue ( as opposed to just my LC-2, which is an early production unit )


Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:29 am
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
Posts: 241
Location: Toronto Canada
When the sensor is in an active exhaust stream carbon will build up on the walls of the diffusion chamber, the diffusion chamber holds samples of the exhaust gas, carbon will cock block any O2 from being sensed by the sensor and as more carbon builds up the sensor will tend to read more stoich. When the sensor is at the proper temperature it will burn off most of the carbon, but carbon will still build up over time. If you have an unpowered sensor in an active exhaust it is only a matter of hours or days until the sensor fails, if the temperature is properly controlled then the sensor will last for 100000 km for OEM applications, my guess is that for aftermarket performance applications it will last around 25000 km provided that the temperature is properly controlled.

The error 8 on the innovate products seem to be a catch all error, any error that does not fit into any defined category will probably be an error 8, so the cause could be almost anything.

According to the Bosch datasheet sensor temperature is measured by measuring the resistance of the nernst cell, innovate measures pump cell resistance as a proxy to the nernst cell resistance, so they are doing things differently than everyone else.

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Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:22 am
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QFP80 - Contributor

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 am
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Location: Scarborough, ON
Is it possible to recondition a fouled sensor? Depending on the overall condition, a fouled spark plug can often be cleaned using a (lean) propane torch. I understand that a sensor is a LOT more fragile and sensitive that a plug, but is there any thing to be done?

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Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:46 am
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Wideband Wizard

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 am
Posts: 241
Location: Toronto Canada
Maybe you can dip the head of the sensor in paint thinner, paint thinner dissolves carbon, I have no idea if it will cause problems. Best to try not power the sensor while the paint thinner is still on it, or you will get a nice fireball.

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Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:02 pm
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lol! :-p

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Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:59 pm
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