Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

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Fred
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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by Fred »

MotoFab wrote:Regarding any potential hardware problems, none that I saw suffered the concerns you listed enough to stop them from buying the Puma board.
Actually, you have no idea how many individuals were canvassed for that buy, and , as such, no idea that 90% chose not to buy, many of whom were interested and cited potential issues as their reason for not going ahead.
The source code for that demonstrator board is available from Freescale.
Source code available is not equal to open source.
MotoFab wrote:
Fred wrote:
Mike Garrard June 20, 2011 wrote:Yes, I will publish schematics
How about the gerbers? Is it "open source" at all? I don't think so. It's just marketing hype. Freescale and MegaSquirt are in each others back pockets anyway, and always were!
Freescale puts gerber images of their development boards into datasheets. The actual gerber files are also available, I've downloaded several over the years. That is an everyday practice for Freescale, nee Motorola semiconductor division.
What about the design files from the package used to create it, such that it can be easily tweaked into something else, something better, something different, something custom, etc? An absolute minimum requirement for an open source hardware platform would be schematics + gerbers such that more boards can be printed.
It is marketing hype, Freescale says that right from the top.
Using the OS term without being compliant with the OSD from the OSI, THE authority on the matter, is misleading and dishonest at best.

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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by MotoFab »

Fred wrote:How about the gerbers? Is it "open source" at all? I don't think so.

An absolute minimum requirement for an open source hardware platform would be schematics + gerbers such that more boards can be printed.
The schematics are sufficient to comply with the Open Source definition. Gerbers are not needed to comply with the definition. The schematics are the source code. The gerber layers are analogous to the compiled code. The PCB CAE autorouter has its way with the schematic in the same way that the compiler has its way with the source code.

-Jim
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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by jharvey »

Schematics alone, lack massive amounts of information, and are only good for basic testing. Most of the time diagnostics issues aren't shown in a schematic. Gerbers would really help in many regards, and are often not posted as they can be used to circumvent intentionally placed propitiatory obstacles. In this case a key way they are keeping control over it's MFG is by making you buy 1k of the chips to roll your own.

I'm not aware of anyone that has noted quality issues of either design, or build quality. As far as I've seen, it will do what it's advertised to do, which is less than what PUMA will do.

I suspect we'll see a version of FreeEMS that runs on the 5554 which is a much more capable processor as it can handle more than the 4 cyls in the above noted project.
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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

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MotoFab wrote:The schematics are sufficient to comply with the Open Source definition. Gerbers are not needed to comply with the definition. The schematics are the source code. The gerber layers are analogous to the compiled code.
Rubbish, total and utter. The board is the binary, as built by automated process. Boards are typically laid out from schematics by hand, in part, at least, and are thus source. You can not go from schematic to identical PCB with automated tools, period.

You're wasting my time. Any more and you get your old account settings back.

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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by MotoFab »

Jared, I've never seen a single IC that you couldn't get just one of.

Freescale usually provides free no-purchase-required gerbers, but if for some reason they don't, at least the schematics will be open source. They will be free, downloadable, and in the usual form of a schematic. I get you'd like to have the gerbers too, so would I. Luckily Freescale more often than not provides them free.

Also the Freescale code will be free, and provided without purchase. And it's currently available. On the other hand, I don't think anyone believes that the ported MS code will be provided without some attempt at control. But that's another issue.

Something else of important legal note, the Open Source definition is express and specific regarding code, and silent on the specifics of hardware schematics and gerbers. So we have a difference of opinion about something not considered by the current definition.

-Jim
Last edited by Fred on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove off-topic material of antagonistic nature.
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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by MotoFab »

I just read this in the Freescale blog entry: "So now it’s over to you. Please take a look at your past and planned projects, provide a suggestion, or just cast a vote. Otherwise all you’ll get is Gerber files. And where’s the fun in that?"

In context, the excerpt is saying that Freescale may not build a quantity of boards, and if not, then all you’ll get is Gerber files.

Free code, code that has run a motor, and also free gerbers. Seems pretty Open Source by the OSI definition. Freescale states they are conversing with B&G to gain product exposure and popularity. I don't read that Freescale means to offer MS code, only that they tapped a popular do-it-yourself enthusiast forum as a marketing resource.

-Jim


Edit: Fixed some transposed words.
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Re: Freescale is planning an Open Source ECU

Post by Fred »

MotoFab wrote:Jared, I've never seen a single IC that you couldn't get just one of.
Dishonest, stupid, ignorant, or just plain provocative. I vote the latter, or the former, as you have a long history of the latter, and you're certainly not the middle two.
Freescale usually provides free no-purchase-required gerbers, but if for some reason they don't, at least the schematics will be open source. They will be free, downloadable, and in the usual form of a schematic. I get you'd like to have the gerbers too, so would I. Luckily Freescale more often than not provides them free.
You're in the non-free section, I'd like to think that that implied that you knew what free meant. I suspect you do, and are just being your usual self. It's wearing thin, Jim.

Required FREE reading for Jim.
Also the Freescale code will be free, and provided without purchase. And it's currently available. On the other hand, I don't think anyone believes that the ported MS code will be provided without some attempt at control. But that's another issue.
Required FREE reading for Jim.
Something else of important legal note, the Open Source definition is express and specific regarding code, and silent on the specifics of hardware schematics and gerbers. So we have a difference of opinion about something not considered by the current definition.
I agree that we disagree, so we'll leave it at that. I suggest you rethink your definition of "code" though.
MotoFab wrote:I just read this in the Freescale blog entry: "So now it’s over to you. Please take a look at your past and planned projects, provide a suggestion, or just cast a vote. Otherwise all you’ll get is Gerber files. And where’s the fun in that?"

In context, the excerpt is saying that Freescale may not build a quantity of boards, and if not, then all you’ll get is Gerber files.
Next time you, and only you, parrot a quote, I will delete it. You've been warned.
Free code, code that has run a motor, and also free gerbers. Seems pretty Open Source by the OSI definition.
Required FREE reading for Jim.

Schematics and gerbers do not offer you the freedom to make changes to the physical design in a convenient way. If it were high level software, the gerbers would be considered obfuscated or perhaps more similar to assembly language. Open source licenses usually expressly prohibit such intentional misinterpretation of sharing the "source".
Freescale states they are conversing with B&G to gain product exposure and popularity. I don't read that Freescale means to offer MS code, only that they tapped a popular do-it-yourself enthusiast forum as a marketing resource.
I agree.

This non-free topic has been beaten to death, there is nothing further to add, and it's already taking up more than its fair share of database space, as-is. Closed. Thank Jim if you wanted to comment. If you are not Jim, and you feel you'd like your material added here, PM me it and I will put it here for you, if it's appropriate.

Fred.
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n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
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