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Widebands That You Would or Wouldn't Buy 
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:30 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Chicago, USA
Well, I bought a spartan2 and new sensor, 17025. Should be here by new years as I got it through Amazon. Thanks to my work that gave me an Amazon gift card for Christmas! Anyway, I pulled the LC-1 out and put in the old NB sensor for the time being. I cannot get it to 'calibrate'. If I do disconnect sensor, power up LC-1, power down LC-1, plug in sensor, it flashes the LED like it is going through a cal then it goes solid like it is done. Then I run it and all I get is min-max oscillation.

I cut the LC-1 open to see what could see. This is a 2004 rev E PCB. I bought it in 2005, I am pretty sure. There are 4 tantalums as far as I can see.
I guess I'll make an order @ digikey and just wholesale replace the 4 of them. Any comments?

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Other interesting links all are about getting a current version of the firmware on it. Also I ran across a couple of comments about brown outs during cranking. I'm not having that. Mine is powered by the main relay with a big fat connection to the battery and has been so for over 10 years. Ground is also a big fat one to the head like the MS.
https://www.drive2.ru/l/1143095/ russian
http://swatronics.blogspot.com/2012/03/innovate-lc-1-fix-and-analysis.html
http://brickspeed.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=2363


Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:53 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:30 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Chicago, USA
Arrrrgh! It may not have been the LC-1 after all. Oh well.

Went out to start the Saab on Monday (-5F) and it cranked slowly then started. I noticed it was running rough. Had too many things to do on Monday, so I dealt with it running rough for about an hour and a half in city traffic. My guess was I killed another VND5N07s. Plugs 2 and 3 were black - rich. Scope showed a pulse on 2 and 3, but no flyback pulse. Indeed, bad injector drivers. Pulled the ECU away from the car and was going to probe to see if it was a output device or maybe a fet driver. No start? No power to the ECU? Checked and no signal ground (took hours to finally figure this out I mean, come on, it was the OEM harness and has been running fine for over 10 years like this). Power ground, check, just no signal ground. My signal ground is in the OEM harness?!? No cuts, no abrasions, no splices by me but still no signal ground. Ran a new signal ground, 16 ga to the head, and bam! back in business (8 hours later). In this Diagram I suspect corrosion at J56 off of pin 5 on the OEM ECU. This junction is buried in the harness somewhere. Pin 17 is the power ground which shows 0.3 ohm or about what my meter leads read. I had a similar junction problem on the 02 Saab 9^5 which was throwing an O2 sensor code. On the 9^5, I cut it out and soldered, heat shrinked the joint and all better.

How it relates to this thread: The LC-1 was using this ground for its signal ground, too. I was using the power ground on the LC-1 (blue wire) connected to the same power ground the same as the injectors and AIC but using the white and green wires on the signal ground. It must have corrosion at a junction it shows in the wiring diagram. There are no cuts or abrasions on the harness. Shows open, now after I moved it, but must have been something greater than the 0.3 ohm I get on the power ground which would be a reason it calibrated but then un-calibrated. Regardless, the Spartan 2 is on the way and I'll be running that in the Saab anyway. I'll replace the caps on the LC-1, as I have it apart, and see if it will work on my '62 Buick.

Gearhead


Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:33 pm
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Straight jacket fits. :-p

Most tants can't dry up, FYI. Replacing tants in that thing is a dubious thing to do IMO. Electros? For sure! :-)

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Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:53 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:10 am
Posts: 108
I have seen replacing the tant on the back side of an LC-1 PCB revive a couple of units.

Image

The one marked C12


Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:40 am
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Fair enough! Can you tell if it's dry or wet type? Or do dry types wear out too? If so, "you learn something every day".

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FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
The ever growing list of FreeEMS success stories!


Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:12 am
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:30 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Chicago, USA
HelmutVonAutobahn wrote:
I have seen replacing the tant on the back side of an LC-1 PCB revive a couple of units.

The one marked C12

On mine C12 is marked 47uf 10v. What maladies were fixed by replacing this cap?

Gearhead


Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:20 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:10 am
Posts: 108
IIRC the affected units would never finish warming up. Even with new sensors.


Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:27 am
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:10 am
Posts: 108
Looks like Innovate has released their "MTX-L PLUS" wideband.

http://www.turnology.com/news/new-products/innovate-motorsports-releases-mtx-l-plus-gauge/

But, I don't see mention of it on their own website. Or, a place to order it. Not sure if all new MTX-L's are the "plus" model. Or, if there is a separate part number.


Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:04 am
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:30 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Chicago, USA
I received a Spartan2 (Purchased on Amazon) back in January. I tried to install it. The LED flashed 2x then nothing. I sent a message to Alan and got a replacement pronto. Unfortunately, I have not had time to install the new one, yet. Alan was very responsive. Also have a replacement capacitor for the LC1. Also have not taken time to replace it. I want to put this one on my old Buick.

Gearhead


Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:01 pm
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DelSolid wrote:
+1 for ECM AFM1000.

I used the NTK branded version of this box and I always considered it bulletproof. The only con I had on it was the price and the lack of a waterproof housing or connector.

Does anybody know the price of the unit now? That link didn't show a price. Is it cheaper now or is it still ~$1,500?


Somehow I missed the entire thread section where you were posting and a lot of really good information was dumped here. Happy to see the unique level of discourse here. I feel like I missed out in the mid-20 page range!

The AFM1000 is still the same price, we sell them if anyone is interested. They are a great product. You can get used ones but it hard to know how they've been taken care of. I hear there is this AFR500v2 thing that performs really well from ECM for a lot less than $1500 too ;)

With the new analog on our AFR500v2, it is DRAMATICALLY faster than the AFR500/AFX was. Perhaps Delsolid is interested in taking a look. We also sell the AEM X-Series and can say in our testing that the AFR500v2 & AEM X-Series are the new benchmark in high speed, low noise Air fuel ratio measurement.

The AFR500v2 is unique in the market in that it handles the 4.2, 4.9, and NTK varieties except the ZFAS-U2 all very well. The display can now show lambda, gas, or methanol scale. This is also unique:

Standard Range:
Gasoline AFR (9:1-16:1) = 9.00 + Vout x 1.400
Methanol AFR (4.00-7.10) = 4.00 + Vout x 0.62
Lambda (.618-1.098) = 0.618 + Vout x 0.096

Wide Range:
Gasoline AFR (6:1-20:1) = 6.00 + Vout x 2.800
Methanol AFR (2.66-8.88) = 2.66 + Vout x 1.244
Lambda (.411-1.373) = 0.411 + Vout x 0.1923

We recommend the calibration grade NTK sensor for the wide range customers on the very low end of the spectrum such as turbo methanol customers.

We use HBX-1 style bungs and sell the US made stock before Innovate pushed production to Asia. They are great for our very high EGT, very high flow customers such as turbo methanol applications. Specifications aside, our real world experience is that the NTK sensors are much more temperature tolerant, tend to be longer lived, and are far more tolerant of various race fuels especially leaded fuels compared to the Bosch sensors. We ship the Bosch 4.9 sensor as a standard sensor now and spec up to the NTK sensor where it is warranted or desired.

The innovate clamp works reasonably well in many applications but we strongly recommend a bung installation instead wherever possible.

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Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:11 am
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