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TO220 - Visibile

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:39 pm
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Noob, so bear with me.

So with a 6 cyl engine we can use 3 outputs for ignition and 3 for injection thus having to run wasted-spark and semi-sequential. Correct?

My question is why can't we run a wasted spark setup with COP? Is it because the coils wont handle the higher duty cycle?


Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:47 am
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That is correct yes. You can run COP units in pseudo wasted spark, and they'll likely be OK, though the higher duty *could* be an issue. Many do exactly that and few if any seem to have problems. By the end of the year you should be able to run full COP/Sequential, be patient :-)

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:35 pm
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QFP80 - Contributor

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:07 am
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Fred wrote:
By the end of the year you should be able to run full COP/Sequential, be patient :-)



2014??


Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:54 am
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The person who was working on that completely dropped the ball and did nothing on it for about two years. They believed that what they had done was good enough when really it was far from that. A good version still needs to be written, and I have some ideas on how to do that and get proper performance out of it. Amateurs need not apply.

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Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:26 am
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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stock FC rotaries use wasted spark on their leading plugs, trailing uses seq spark


Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:34 pm
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Hentai wrote:
stock FC rotaries use wasted spark on their leading plugs, trailing uses seq spark

True, though the igniter handles the switch between front and rear rotor, it has a high/low toggle input from the ecu as well as a trailing waste spark signal. It is odd.
So really, the ECU has 2 ignition outputs and a front/rear rotor toggle signal for trailing. 13B JC Cosmo is the same, from memory.
Spark is good from these systems, but man they are old now, obviously.

re: outboard secondary injectors. Hell yeah they look awesome! Not overly safe lol, but looks cool. Reality is you probably don't need it with modern injector atomisation however. I do know of a couple of setups that is it, one has particularly short runners though and spins to 13k rpm so likely quite justified.
Image
Also, zero-split is preferable rather than leading plugs only, to get a good burn.
I haven't tested, but apparently best power is at zero-split. However it supposedly makes knock threshold closer to min best timing so you have to be on your game. I also don't recall where I saw/read/got told this, it was years ago. edit: ugh, I hate that I spouted info I can't back up, but I'm leaving it here for those curious.

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Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:22 am
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TO92 - Vaguely active

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I have a GM 3800 series 2, the ICM can drive the bank fire coils just fine however it requires a 5v waveform from the ecm to command spark advance, could this be mimicked by the controller and could the controller use the generated 7x, 24x and cam reference signal that the ICM produces in order to reduce the number of required channels? I should be able to supply waveform data of the signal feedback to the ICM from the ECM, if requested. and I can also colect and send crank sensor data and ICM crank reference output. (would it be too ambitious to attempt to write a secondary control program for transmission shifting?)
ps. I have 10 years as an automotive diagnostic tech, have a fair background in linux OS, and have SOME knowledge of python, java, C, and perl.

pps I have already downloaded the source files and am reading the uncompiled work to familiarize myself with what is involved in this project.


Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:39 am
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morrigan wrote:
I have a GM 3800 series 2, the ICM can drive the bank fire coils just fine however it requires a 5v waveform from the ecm to command spark advance, could this be mimicked by the controller and could the controller use the generated 7x, 24x and cam reference signal that the ICM produces in order to reduce the number of required channels? I should be able to supply waveform data of the signal feedback to the ICM from the ECM, if requested. and I can also colect and send crank sensor data and ICM crank reference output. (would it be too ambitious to attempt to write a secondary control program for transmission shifting?)
ps. I have 10 years as an automotive diagnostic tech, have a fair background in linux OS, and have SOME knowledge of python, java, C, and perl.

pps I have already downloaded the source files and am reading the uncompiled work to familiarize myself with what is involved in this project.


I intended to say wasted spark coils not "bank fired" my brain had left me for a moment.


Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:37 am
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Figured as much! Mind if I move these posts to the intro thread or a new thread of your own? I linked a GM enthusiast who might know what you mean off the top of his head. Hopefully he pipes up and responds at some point soon :-) Welcome to the site, either way!

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FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
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Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:10 am
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LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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morrigan wrote:
I have a GM 3800 series 2

Cool, I have a GM 3800 Series 1 v6 in my 1989 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo, it was used to provide ignition data to Fred when we were working on getting the GM wasted spark control setup for FreeEMS :)

morrigan wrote:
the ICM can drive the bank fire coils just fine however it requires a 5v waveform from the ecm to command spark advance, could this be mimicked by the controller and could the controller use the generated 7x, 24x and cam reference signal that the ICM produces in order to reduce the number of required channels?

Your ICM also has a 3 pulse per revolution output to the stock ECM that you can use as an input to FreeEMS, this is what I do for my Trofeo and my Deuce (1996 GM 3100 v6). The 7x VR signal is used directly by the ICM, so if you want to retain the stock ICM/coil setup then you will leave this alone. The 24x per revolution signal will go unused, the factory ECM only used this signal for emission control during idle and cruise RPMs. You will use the cam reference signal so that the FreeEMS firmware knows when the engine cycle begins. The FreeEMS firmware along with the necessary circuitry (as shown in my Jaguar PCB schematics) will output the correct 5v waveform for your ignition advance signal that the ICM will need. My 1996 S10 and the Deuce both use Jaguar PCBs and FreeEMS to control the GM ICMs as well as fuel injection. See the links in my signature for the S10 and the Deuce information.

morrigan wrote:
I should be able to supply waveform data of the signal feedback to the ICM from the ECM, if requested. and I can also colect and send crank sensor data and ICM crank reference output. (would it be too ambitious to attempt to write a secondary control program for transmission shifting?)

You will also need to use the cam sensor output for FreeEMS so that it knows when each engine cycle begins so that you can do semi-sequential injection. Depending on your transmission you may or may not need to control the shifting. My Trofeo has what is basically a GM TH400 in design (for a front wheel drive configuration) and only has a vacuum modulator. My Deuce is running a GM 700R4 and only needs one output from the ECM to lock up the torque convertor during cruise and this can be done with an output from the ECM or with a vacuum controlled switch. If you have a more modern electronic shifted GM transmission then we should talk about my TCM (transmission control module) that I am developing for the GM 4L60e and GM 4L80e.

morrigan wrote:
ps. I have 10 years as an automotive diagnostic tech, have a fair background in linux OS, and have SOME knowledge of python, java, C, and perl.

Cool, welcome aboard! :)

morrigan wrote:
pps I have already downloaded the source files and am reading the uncompiled work to familiarize myself with what is involved in this project.

For your setup you will want to look at all of the sections with the configuration ID of "DEUCECOUPE" as it is already setup very similar to what you will need for your GM 3800 Series 2 engine.

Cheers,

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FreeEMS vehicle #11, 1932 Ford 5 Window Coupe with a 1996 GM 3.1L SFI V6 with DIS ignition
FreeEMS vehicle #16, 1996 Chevrolet S10 2.2L SFI I4 with DIS ignition
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Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:41 pm
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