DIYEFI.org Forum

Just to bring this up:
I realized that a lot of cars use GNC in argentina (gas natural comprimido, CNG, compressed natural gas) as a fuel. After a quick search, it turns out there are 1.2 million cars using GNC; so I went to a place where those systems are installed (a car uses gasoline by default, and then it is converted to GNC because is cheaper).

I learnt that GNC injectors are 3ohm, and actual systems are sequential. (beware! spanish link: http://www.airgnc.com/?Contenido=Detall ... G=SP&Id=94)

Piece of cake for FreeEMS; it could handle both gasoline and gas, plus ignition control (flame propagation of gas slower than gasoline).

In brasil there is a huge amount of bi fuel cars too, but they use alcohol instead of GNC.

I have to check the gncusers.com forum :p

I edited the title and the bit in brackets, I hope you don't mind (I hate doing that...).

Fred.

thanks, I almost ask you before posting.

Marcos,
Its Ernest from Australia. Just letting myself be known
Hopefully I can contribute to this thread.

What infrastructure do you guys have in Argentina regarding refuelling? Is it all petrol stations or do you have home fuelling? I am very interested in home fuelling.

Ernest

eezo20v wrote:Marcos,
What infrastructure do you guys have in Argentina regarding refuelling? Is it all petrol stations or do you have home fuelling? I am very interested in home fuelling.

Hi Ernest, welcome along :-)

We have petrol stations for refuelling, and gas tanks are filled at 200bar. Everything is tightly regulated legal-wise, maybe there is no room to try a personal home refuelling system in Argyland. I wonder how cheaper would it be to compress you own gas, good question to investigate.

Anyway, I know a guy that has a v8 running from his kitchen gas line (a fixed electric generator).

What I saw here, is that these EMS have pressure sensors in the gas rail. A guy that installs those systems told me so. I'd guess it need pressure+temperature, but i'm not the expert.

nitrousnrg wrote:

eezo20v wrote:Marcos,
What infrastructure do you guys have in Argentina regarding refuelling? Is it all petrol stations or do you have home fuelling? I am very interested in home fuelling.

Hi Ernest, welcome along

We have petrol stations for refuelling, and gas tanks are filled at 200bar. Everything is tightly regulated legal-wise, maybe there is no room to try a personal home refuelling system in Argyland. I wonder how cheaper would it be to compress you own gas, good question to investigate.

Anyway, I know a guy that has a v8 running from his kitchen gas line (a fixed electric generator).

What I saw here, is that these EMS have pressure sensors in the gas rail. A guy that installs those systems told me so. I'd guess it need pressure+temperature, but i'm not the expert.

Thanks for the welcome
All engines have a fuel pressure sensor of some sort. The older types are mechanical the newer ones electronic.
Generally with CNG we use a gas pressure sensor and gas temperature sensor. These are obviously for compensations. There are a few devices that have both the pressure and temperature in one device.
The CNG delivered to you home is a very low pressure, which means the guy running the engine must have fairly low pressure injectors. You should ask him what model/part they are, just for future reference.
With home refuelling you have a small compressor and storage unit that is fed form the mains in the house. This is then fed into the cars storage tank at much higher pressure. Generally it takes 5-6 hours to fill up from empty.
I am looking at creating a complete solution for home, ie compressor, EMS, in car tank and installation.
Australia has the largest gas fields in the world, but we are run by the oil moguls. CNG is quite a rarity here.
The good thing is that nearly every house has a CNG supply for cooking.
I look forward to getting this up and running inthe medium term. Should be fun.

nitrousnrg wrote:there is no room to try a personal home refuelling system in Argyland.

Pussy! :-)

Show em how it's done, Ernest! :-)

A friend of my dads used to home fill... 'cept he did it straight out of the mains for free ;-) Shhhh.

Fred.

Just want to point out Ford made a crown vic that ran off cng .... the injectors are rated for 1600 cc or 160 lbs so i take it you need allot more natural gas then regular gas / but these injectors work nice on modified turbo application plus you can source them new or rebuilt cheaper them most racing injectors

nitrousnrg wrote:

eezo20v wrote:Marcos,
What infrastructure do you guys have in Argentina regarding refuelling? Is it all petrol stations or do you have home fuelling? I am very interested in home fuelling.

Hi Ernest, welcome along

We have petrol stations for refuelling, and gas tanks are filled at 200bar. Everything is tightly regulated legal-wise, maybe there is no room to try a personal home refuelling system in Argyland. I wonder how cheaper would it be to compress you own gas, good question to investigate.

Anyway, I know a guy that has a v8 running from his kitchen gas line (a fixed electric generator).

What I saw here, is that these EMS have pressure sensors in the gas rail. A guy that installs those systems told me so. I'd guess it need pressure+temperature, but i'm not the expert.

Home re-filling is illegal here Marcos... But the figures are tempting

A cubic meter of CNG at a refill station cost $1.53 (Pesos argentinos)
A cubic meter of Natural gas at your kitchen cost $0.21 (Pesos Argentinos)

4.25 pesos argentinos = 1 US dollar

The bast mayoritiy of the converted vehicles use second generation regulators.. That work like a carburator...

That's a nice ratio ;-)