Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

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Fred
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Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

I'm putting this up on behalf of a friend who I am building an MS2 unit for. His car has a 1600cc engine called the B6T with 670cc low z injectors. The BFMR platform light weight is a BF chassis 4wd Mazda 323/Familia with the turbocharged B6 engine standard. This particular vehicle has a TD05 16G attached and is likely to be bloody quick. I believe his aim is to embarrass the BPT/BG boys with a smaller engine and lighter chassis ;-)

We are starting with the following things:
  • diyautotune.com ms2/v3.0 combo kit
  • DLP-TXRX usb/uart card
  • jbperf.com p&h kit
  • diyautotune.com loom
  • My old JimStim
  • My l337 5k1ll5
  • A lot of luck
It's been about 7 years since I built my MS2, so when I started to think about doing it again, I got a headache pretty quickly and remembered why MS sucks so much. BOARD MODS! This car only needs simple fuel/ignition, no boost control, no idle control, no fcuk all, and yet, it still needs a lot changed just to be half decent, hardware wise. I guess at least it's a perfect candidate for using an early FreeEMS incarnation in the next few months once 0.1.3 is out.

Place your comments in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=931

Fred.
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

We are replacing an ancient Haltech E6A unit:

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The car is currently a bit of a mess, but it looks something like this:

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The business end looks like this:

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Well, it does when it's not looking like this:

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Which they often do ;-) [these cars have a reputation for leaving their box innards on the drag strip, and various other places]

Here is my work area:

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Note the original Volvo FreeEMS unit on the bench and DIYEFI.org forum on the eee. Also note Riedel Vinum crystal ready for use :-)

Fred.
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

References:

DLP USB-UART adapter issues threads, with some luck, thise wont be necessary with a brand new MS2 card.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 22&t=35275
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 01&t=31867

THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH OUR UNIT

Note:

They diyautotune loom comes with a plug that has spare holes, no spare pins, spliced wires, not solderable, etc. IE, not user modable. That seems like a total fail for any MS product. I have some photos to illustrate. Maybe tomorrow I'll post them up.

I gave it the dual 12v feed mod, similar to my own unit, but a bit better as I used one lead from the MOV rather than a multistrand wire.

I got the power supply fully assembled and tested. It was the first time my JimStim had been hooked to a MegaSquirt, only FreeEMS before that.

I also did some research on various mods and configuration things that need setting up. Tomorrow will be a good day, will get lots done for sure.

Fred.
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

The rs232 comms are in place and tested, cpu is installed and tested, 3.0.3x code is loaded onto it, brand new mtx build is on my eee and works with it, input conditioning circuits are done and all pots on the jimstim work sweet.

Tomorrow I'll sort out the RPM inputs, and install the LED buffers and hook them to the correct pins. I might try to get some FreeEMS work done tomorrow too.

I might also post some more photos tomorrow. I've taken a few, but need to post them.

Fred.
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by wrcbfmr »

For those of you that dont know (most likely all) the set up on this is going to be...

TD05hr twin scroll turbo with the 9.8 compressor housing, matching custom twin scroll manifold
60mm throttle Body of a naturally aspirated SR20 and modified plenium chamber to suit
evo 6 intercooler with custom intercooler piping.
HKS 256 naturally aspirated camshafts
slight port and polish to head
sequential injection with low z 670cc injectors
walbro 500hp fuel pump
external engine oil cooler
3" exhaust
wasted spark coils off a mitsubishi GTO
forged pistons

so hoping for a ball park power figure of around 350 flywheel hp :twisted:
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What we're using and what we're not.

Post by Fred »

The other day, I installed the fuel pump drive and the hall/opto input and researched a bunch of stuff to see how to connect various things and bagged up and double checked every component that was spare.

The board contains the following groups of components:
  • Power Supply
  • RS232 Comms
  • Clock for MS1
  • Square Wave Input
  • VR Input
  • Analog Inputs
  • Map Sensor
  • Fast Idle
  • Fuel Pump Drive
  • Ignition Output
  • Injector Outputs
  • LED Outputs
Of the above list I have or will install the following sections:
  • Power Supply
  • Square Wave Input
  • Analog Inputs
  • Fuel Pump Drive
  • LED Outputs
And have not and will not install these sections:
  • Clock for MS1
  • VR Input
  • Map Sensor
  • Fast Idle
  • Ignition Output
  • Injector Outputs
Additionally, the RS232 Comms:
  • RS232 Comms
Is redundant on this board as we are going to use the DLP UART to USB module instead. I just installed it for initial testing and because some required parts were not available.

The MAP sensor is unused because we have an external 3 bar GM style sensor from the previous EMS install to use. This isn't really the designer's fault, though.

By grouping, then, more than 50% of the stuff on the board is not used. In reality it's more like 2/3 or 3/4 unused as the groups not installed are larger on average and include 9 of the 10 to220 devices. Only the regulator is left in the box.

Image

Furthermore, we need to build extra circuits to buffer the weak CPU pins, provide sufficient drive for the external drivers and protect the CPU from damage.

External to the box will be two standard OEM dumb ignitors with significant heatsinking capacity and Jean's P&H driver board, mounted in an alloy box in the engine bay, close to the source and drain, probably.

I think the above somewhat illustrates just how wrong they got the V3.0 board. Especially when you combine the functional issues with the design issues found on the board. I'll list these in another post soon. This install is about as basic as they come. 4 channel sequential and wasted spark. This (or better) is standard on anything later than 1990 or so :-/

This will be the least noisy MegaSquirt box, EVER, though. Only CPU, comms and sensor current will be drawn.

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I'll list the components in the different groups in a later post.

Fred.
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Component lists for each section.

Post by Fred »

The leftovers:

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This photo didn't come out very well, however I couldn't help but notice the file name...

http://stuff.fredcooke.com/daniel.horto ... G_1666.JPG

As listed in the above post, the sections are:
  • Power Supply
  • RS232 Comms
  • Clock for MS1
  • Square Wave Input
  • VR Input
  • Analog Inputs
  • Map Sensor
  • Fast Idle
  • Fuel Pump Drive
  • Ignition Output
  • Injector Outputs
  • LED Outputs
And the components for each are:

Power Supply

Will fill this out after dinner.
  • Varistor (MOV): 1
  • Capacitors (C): 15,16,17,18,19,22,23
  • Diodes (D): 9,10,11,12,13,19
  • Inductors (L): 1,2
  • Poly Fuses (F): 1,2
  • 5V Regulator (U): 5
RS232 Comms

Installed, but will not be used in the medium term.
  • RS232 Driver (U): 6
  • Capacitors (C): 26,27,28,29
Clock for MS1

Not required for MS2, C1 and R1 are not for the clock, but also not required.
  • Resistors (R): 1,21,22,23
  • Capacitors (C): 1,20,21,24,25
  • Crystal (Y): 1
Square Wave Input

This section has some optional components for different specific uses and installation conditions.

We installed these components for a clean optical CAS output:
  • Resistors (R): 12,13
  • Opto Isolator (U): 3
  • Capacitor (C): 11
And did not install these ones:
  • Diodes (D): 1,2
  • Capacitors (C): 12,30
VR Input

Doesn't work properly, extremely difficult to adjust, unused on vehicle with optical CAS. Should have been an IC from the start, such as LM1815.
  • Resistors (R): 42,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56
  • Diode (D): 24
  • OpAmp (U): 7
  • Transistors (Q): 22,23
  • Capacitors (C): 31,32
Analog Inputs

Will fill this out after dinner.

Includes MAP sensor filter components, reused for external MAP.
  • Capacitors (C): 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
  • Resistors (R): 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11
Map Sensor

We're using an external 3 bar map sensor. For safety we'll add a normal diode to divert > 5V signals to the 5V rail. See above for the other two related components that are still used.
  • MAP Sensor (U): 2
  • Capacitor (C): 3
Fast Idle

Too weak for any sort of PWM usage etc.
  • Resistors (R): 19,39
  • Transistors (Q): 4,20
  • Zener Diode (D): 8
Fuel Pump Drive
  • Resistors (R): 16,40
  • Transistors (Q): 2,19
  • Zener Diode (D): 4
Ignition Output

This does not belong inside the box, just ask almost any OEM.
  • IGBT (Q): 16
  • Resistors (R): 43,57
Injector Outputs

Massive overkill for high Z use, and low Z does not belong inside the case either. Additionally, not enough to properly control any normal 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engine with sequential injection which is essential with HUGE injectors such as Dan's BF/B6. We are running Jean's P&H driver board in an external case.
  • Diodes (D): 3,5,6,7,17,18,20,21
  • Transistors (Q): 1,3,5,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
  • Resistors (R): 14,15,17,18,20,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38
  • Capacitors (C): 13,14
  • FET Driver (U): 4
LED Outputs

For our purposes, these will be rewired to connect to the fuel outputs and use green LEDs, there will be a fourth one installed, too. Two additional red LEDs will be installed on the underside of the board with matching driver circuits and will indicate the ignition channels.
  • Resistors (R): 24,25,26,27,28,29
  • LED Diodes (D): 14,15,16
  • Transistors (Q): 6,7,8
I hope this helps someone else in future. At the least it is a good reference for us and this particular unit.

Fred.
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DIYAutoTune Parts Issues/Questions

Post by Fred »

Most of this system was supplied by the nice guys at DIYAutoTune. Mostly, things are good, well labeled, etc, but I have a few complaints and questions as outlined below.

Firstly, what is the mystery diode? D-extra it says on the packet:

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I have no idea...

Secondly, what is this for:

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I have no idea, possibly for insulating jumpers or something weird? Can anyone link to where either of these things are documented? There are some small coils of wire included too, but I'll find a use for them. I'd expect a note saying "we gave you this thing you weren't expecting because some people use it for XYZ and/or you should use it for ABC".

Questions over, complaint time:

The loom!!! Now, I built my own loom, 5 years ago, or so, and I don't regret it, I got a good loom, and it is modifiable and servicable and reliable and the connections are visible for inspection, etc. I've been recommending a LOT of different people buy ms2/v3.0 combos for a long time now, and many of them have chosen to buy the diyautotune loom also upon my advice. I feel a bit let down.
  • The loom that we received has a crimp connector on it
  • The crimp joints are hidden deep inside the plastic and can't be checked
  • The insulation on some wires is too short and not providing strain relief
  • The spare connector pins can not be used because the spare pins are not included
  • Even if they were, users would not have the crimper required to do the job properly
  • The injector wires come out of two pins each and are then spliced into a heavier gauge wire
  • The are joined with a crimp splice connector burried deep beneath a tidy looking cover
  • The power feed wire is light gauge and totally unsuitable for any low z application
Many of these things are pretty much completely unacceptable in my eyes. I regret recommending this loom to less knowledgable people unable to gauge its suitability, for their application, for themselves. At least for this friend I am on hand to make sure it's done right. What that means in this case, is to cut off the connector, remove the injector wires, add an extra power wire, add the output wires for the fuel and ignition channels. I'd still redo it even if not for some of those decisions, because I would not want a splice connector hidden inside the loom like that.

Some pictures follow:

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Pin listing:

http://stuff.fredcooke.com/daniel.horto ... G_1648.JPG

With some luck one or more of the crew in Atlanta will sign up and put some sort of response to this critique in the comments thread. I've always found Jerry and co to have truly excellent customer service. In fact, when I visited him in Atlanta I left my cell phone on his counter and he offerred to post it back to me. You can't beat their service. I hope this time is no exception.

To be fair, it's still been worthwhile ordering the loom just for the wires, which are mostly labelled and of good quality. The connector shell is also top quality, though I wouldn't install one on my vehicle because it weighs 3/4 of a tonne! the split tube is also a nice touch.

Fred.
DIYEFI.org - where Open Source means Open Source, and Free means Freedom
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FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

And of course, how could we sit here assembling a MegaSquirt box without some alcohol to numb the pain, Dan was nice enough to provide a couple of decent bottles of wine. I provided the Riedel Vinum Bordeaux German lead crystal.

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Testing the power supply by using it to power the jimstim pullups etc:

Image

Testing the input conditioning circuits:

Image

Fred.
DIYEFI.org - where Open Source means Open Source, and Free means Freedom
FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
The ever growing list of FreeEMS success stories!
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Re: Daniel Horton's Extreme B6T BFMR

Post by Fred »

Still to come, mods in detail. I'll delete and repost this one when I get around to doing it.
DIYEFI.org - where Open Source means Open Source, and Free means Freedom
FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
The ever growing list of FreeEMS success stories!
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