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Diagnosing Toyota 2RZ-E engine problems 
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:20 am
Posts: 113
Hello friends,

I got to work on the car last friday, finally!

My findings:
  • Some good news: The oil was absolutely free from particles, at least none I could see in bright sunlight. I don't know what I what I saw on the oil dipstick back then, but I'm glad I didn't see it again.
  • It seems Toyota wanted a Van and what they started with, was a fuel filter. Then the car was built around that.
    Anyways, starting has gotten better, but I'm not too sure how much because I was away all weekend and could only do one cold start so far. That one worked on the first try.
  • The fuel pump turns on when the starter is engaged, and turns off after a second or two. Setting the key on ignition only does not start the fuel pump!
  • I replaced two vac hoses that were looking funny. One to the fuel pressure regulator, the other to the vacuum sensor. I was hoping this could help with the economy light being red all the time, but it didn't.
  • ...and then friday was over :/ The ominous rattle at idle still eludes me. Now that the back engine bay cover has been off, the noise seems to be louder at the transmission-side of the engine, about where the starter is sitting. I'll look into this more closely one of these days.. the weather is fine now, finally. :)
  • Also discovered some rust that needs taking care of
  • Decided to set the 16V swap to a point in time far far away from now. Maybe when it's medically possible to implant another joint, right between elbow and wrist. I think that would make working in that engine space possible. Don't even think about a V8. :(
  • Good news on documentation too! I found an original engine repair manual on ebay for the 3rz-fe, got it for 1€, then found out the seller now also sells one for my 2rz-e! Yes!
  • Still planning on buying and driving on pure pump fuel, for now. :D
I'm still pretty busy with work these days, also the garden needs attention, now that the weather allows it. Will keep you guys updated though :)
Next task will be to check for any error codes present in the ECU and of course, find the rattle.

Bye,
Stefan


Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:23 pm
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QFP80 - Contributor
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ehb wrote:
  1. It seems Toyota wanted a Van and what they started with, was a fuel filter. Then the car was built around that.
  2. The fuel pump turns on when the starter is engaged, and turns off after a second or two. Setting the key on ignition only does not start the fuel pump!
Bye,
Stefan


1, lol :) (there's our quote of the day!!!)

2, if you're pulling someone from a wreck, the key will be in the on position (probably). You don't want the pump running :)
So that's pretty regular.

Otherwise glad to hear of the progress/findings :)


Last edited by Fred on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fixed quote block and list items.



Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:40 am
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ehb wrote:
The fuel pump turns on when the starter is engaged, and turns off after a second or two. Setting the key on ignition only does not start the fuel pump!

Keyword for Craig, start, not stay on. Typically when you key on the pump runs for a second or three to pressurise the stagnant fuel system. Then it runs again when it senses the engine moving. If it stops sensing the engine running, and that continues for one or three seconds, then the pump is turned off again.

Could the regulator be tired and pressure be falling away while stopped? Or the check valve in the pump? Or both. If bad starts continue, try just flicking the key enough to get the pump to start, then see if it fires up normally on the second try, without the first try involving actual cranking.

Quote:
I replaced two vac hoses that were looking funny. One to the fuel pressure regulator, the other to the vacuum sensor. I was hoping this could help with the economy light being red all the time, but it didn't.

How funny? Hilarious? Or side-splittingly? Pun intended. If either of those hoses was absent the car wouldn't run well or at all. I know, my first DIY EFI drive was on no map signal, so it ran great at WOT and coughed and spluttered horribly rich the rest of the time :-)

Quote:
The ominous rattle at idle still eludes me. Now that the back engine bay cover has been off, the noise seems to be louder at the transmission-side of the engine, about where the starter is sitting.

Sounds external! :-) Hooray for oil without metal!

Quote:
Also discovered some rust that needs taking care of

:-( pics or ban! No, not really, though laughing at others rust is always good to brighten up ones day.

Quote:
Decided to set the 16V swap to a point in time far far away from now. Maybe when it's medically possible to implant another joint, right between elbow and wrist. I think that would make working in that engine space possible. Don't even think about a V8. :(

LOL :-p

Quote:
Still planning on buying and driving on pure pump fuel, for now. :D

Of course!

Quote:
Next task will be to check for any error codes present in the ECU and of course, find the rattle. Then the coast will be clear for a new EMS!

Fixed? :-)

Bangbug wrote:
1, lol :) (there's our quote of the day!!!)

+1, do it.

Quote:
2, if you're pulling someone from a wreck, the key will be in the on position (probably). You don't want the pump running :)
So that's pretty regular.

See above. What's normal is for the pump to stop when the engine does, or when the car/bike is sensed to be upside down. Coming on for a brief period with the key is very very normal.

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:04 pm
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So the ecu could also be not telling the pump to run when going from ACC to ON?
Or is that through a timed relay?

I remember reading that testers just reach in the window and crank the engine when testing vehicles (for starting etc etc) and that manufacturers didn't bother much anymore with turning on fuel systems when only "on". Though older vehicles/modified vehicles that's usually the case.
It sure as shit comes up to pressure on my bike though when turned to the ON position, lol.
You can hear it cranking away ;)

interesting anyway


Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:24 pm
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Nah, ACC is just for ACCessories ;-) More seriously I don't know what you're on about. Which is the normal case with you, so no bother! :-)

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:38 pm
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QFP80 - Contributor
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ACC is for target practice ;)

Stefan! Tracked down that rattle yet?
Has the engine repair manual been of any help?

Quickly before we subvert/pervert this thread any further!
I also applaud your layout of your last post, very nicely bullet pointed.


Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:23 am
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:20 am
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Good evening,

Quote:
Quote:
Next task will be to check for any error codes present in the ECU and of course, find the rattle. Then the coast will be clear for a new EMS!

Fixed? :-)


Very well fixed! :)
Unfortunately neither of the tasks has been accomplished yet...

Woohoo, I won the auction for the 2rz-e engine shop manual yesterday too. I bed 30€ and got it for 1. See, no one else is driving these cars here anymore! :(

I'm curious to see the internal parts (in the manual) that might come loose and cause a rattle.

I'm thinking starting has gotten better! Still needs a couple of turns but it now starts on the first time, even when "cold" (20°C). Hard to test when the car is being used early in the morning and then every few hours throughout the day.
Now that the oil has been fine (*wipes sweat off forehead*) I'm a little less concerned that it's something really bad.

To brighten up Freds day, I attached a picture of the rust front left. Doesn't look so bad there actually, but I can stick my hand in there..

LOL@Bangbug
Glad you and Fred fought that out ;) From all other japanese cars I had contact with, I know their fuel pump would come on for a second or two when the key is turned to ON, to make sure fuel pressure is there from the beginning of a start. The Hiace is different in that matter, at least I think it omits this priming pulse by design. And yes, I found this odd too.

On my Mini though, the fuel pump turns on and stays on in the ON position. I always found this a little irritating, also with the thought of a crash in mind.

Well, let's see when the books arrive. Hopefully I can use bullet points in my next post again. :geek:

Greets,
Stefan


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Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:40 pm
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ehb wrote:
To brighten up Freds day, I attached a picture of the rust front left. Doesn't look so bad there actually, but I can stick my hand in there.

Looks nasty! Being hollow you can bet the extent of that rust is 50% bigger than the hole is. Pretty easy to MIG back together, though, provided that it's just that and not more riddled.

Quote:
LOL@Bangbug. Glad you and Fred fought that out ;)

If you'd see a picture of Bangbug you'd realise that the only reason that I'd fight with him is because I'm on the other side of the world! ;-)

Quote:
On my Mini though, the fuel pump turns on and stays on in the ON position. I always found this a little irritating, also with the thought of a crash in mind.

I assume that by "Mini" you mean "BMW", right? In any case, yuck! Also: from one extreme to the other!

_________________
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FreeEMS.org - the open source engine management system
FreeEMS dev diary and its comments thread and my turbo truck!
n00bs, do NOT PM or email tech questions! Use the forum!
The ever growing list of FreeEMS success stories!


Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:24 pm
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TO92 - Vaguely active

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:40 pm
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Hi, can I ask what the consumption of the 2RZ-E Hiace is? I am interested in buying one, but I am afraid it might eat even the grass on the side of the road :)


Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:42 pm
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LQFP112 - Up with the play

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:20 am
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Quote:
Being hollow you can bet the extent of that rust is 50% bigger than the hole is.

Yep, pretty sure about that too. I guess a thorough rust-removal procedure is in order, with new metal, mig welder, tin, paint, rust converter and wax (applied internally), etc... Yay! But I know it's going to be worth it..

Quote:
I assume that by "Mini" you mean "BMW", right?

Nope, talking about my Clubman Estate I posted somewhere here in the forum.

@elipsoid: Did you honestly register to ask me that? :D Well, the Hiace is driven all-year round with winter tires, mostly short distances (2-10km), so many cold starts, AND the engine has some kinds of troubles at the moment, which is why this thread exists.
All that combined, fuel consumption is around 15-16l/100km (that's around 15mpg too). It's only RWD though, not 4x4.
I'm hoping expecting FreeEMS will affect this positively in the future. :)

All else apart, it's a great choice of van. Drives very easily, VERY tight turning radius, very compact for its space.
I've also driven the later models, which I did NOT like, compared to ours. You should test drive one, I bet you get hooked too. :)


Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:17 pm
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