Daily WTF

[jbelanger]

Re: MS2/Extra 3.1.1 released

Hi James,

I would like to ask you about the RENIX 44-2-2 mode, in the file "ms2_extra_ign_wheel.c" we can see 19 teeth of 8.2° and one of 24.6°, but 19*8.2+1*24.6=180.4 (and not 180°).

Does that change anything ?

@+
Fabien.

Not a great deal, no. Theoretically timing accuracy might be off by 0.1 degrees, but there are plenty of other factors that likely mean this is unimportant.

James

Wow.

I'm sorry but that's more a misunderstanding on your part than a WTF. Well, you may want to say WTF but there is no accumulated error of 0.4 degrees. It's only that each of those angular values are accurate to about +- 0.05 degree. So the effective error is very small and James comment is totally valid if somewhat succinct.

What is the angular precision in FreeEMS for each edge of every tooth?

[Fred]

I'm sorry but that's more a misunderstanding on your part than a WTF. Well, you may want to say WTF but there is no accumulated error of 0.4 degrees.

I'm glad you tagged that on the end! :-) It was a double edged WTF, either it's in accurate ign wise, or it's inaccurate code comprehension wise, one of these things is true, both as bad as the other.

It's only that each of those angular values are accurate to about +- 0.05 degree. So the effective error is very small and James comment is totally valid if somewhat succinct.

How is it that they are accurate to a level that is different to how they are defined? That seems fundamentally broken.

What is the angular precision in FreeEMS for each edge of every tooth?

Currently, or in future when finished and after 4 years of development from a working base and on version 3.1.1? :-)

Currently 1 degree, but it is not possible for them to add up to a different value, and it's accurate to that level throughout, from the code:

Code: Select all

 /// @todo TODO From 0 - totalEventAngleRange degrees, scale: x10, x60 or x90? 1x is NOT enough. Currently 1x (1 deg resolution) review all related code for potential overflow and put checks in place before adjusting scaling.

I guess anywhere between 1x and 90x is possible, 0.05 implies 20x scaling, which isn't a bad option, I guess :-)

You may remember my old saying "make it work, make it right, make it fast" we're still on step one for a few more weeks :-)

The other thing that really made me WTF even more than these two comments is that they are STILL having significant inaccuracies in their PID stuff, Abe was on here whinging about this, what, 2 years ago? And it's still got people complaining AND still got people fixing it for them... It shows a total lack of QC and haphazard dev style IMO. Much like their release semantics and various other aspects.

Fred.

[Fred]

Two more, for the books:

1) I'm capable of building my own sophisticated EMS from scratch, but not capable of understanding how to simply setup the input pattern in a functional fashion on ms2e. I'm unsure if this reflects badly on me or them lol.

2) MS3 is going to be released soon! Wait, wasn't it already released? Yeah, that was the OTHER ms3, this is a different ms3. Taking ms naming stupidity to new lows, Bruce Bowling has named the new microsquirt microsquirt3, well done Bruce! :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJGFO_8c4U

Fred.

[Fred]

1) I'm capable of building my own sophisticated EMS from scratch, but not capable of understanding how to simply setup the input pattern in a functional fashion on ms2e. I'm unsure if this reflects badly on me or them lol.

I have to confess, I had left a ground off of one circuit, this was entirely my fault, all though the diagnosis mechanism built in are not very good, and the settings are ridiculously complicated so it's easy to feel lost.

Fred.

[Fred]

Wow! Today's WTF is a big one. I had an extensive rant on facebook about it, and I have probably 150 car friends on there, so it should get good audience.

Code released, user fixes code, Ken redoes users fix, other users test kens code and it doesn't work, Ken removes all code and discussion about his fix not working and the other user's fix working from the thread cutting it from 6 pages to 3, I link a friend to it to get the working code, he reports to me that the 6 page thread is 3 pages, I check, he's right, I find this in my browser history:

http://stuff.fredcooke.com/ProofThatTho ... Thread.png

I wish I'd saved a copy of that thread.

I wish I'd saved a copy of that code and s19!!! Now my friend can't access it and he has the same issue with his vehicle.

All the ms forums need spiders to keep them honest. Un-fucking-believable.

Fred.

[jbelanger]

Boy, for someone who wants to eliminate everything MS from his life you sure waste a lot of energy posting and debating about them and trying to find issues where there's none. If that is what I think it is, it's called forum maintenance. There's an 11 page thread on the PID correction subject with the posts split from the release thread with all the files still there. And by the way you've done some debatable maintenance on your own forum.

This is getting very old. Actually, it's way beyond that.

Jean

[dandruczyk]

Boy, for someone who wants to eliminate everything MS from his life you sure waste a lot of energy posting and debating about them and trying to find issues where there's none. If that is what I think it is, it's called forum maintenance. There's an 11 page thread on the PID correction subject with the posts split from the release thread with all the files still there. And by the way you've done some debatable maintenance on your own forum.

This is getting very old. Actually, it's way beyond that.

Jean

Agreed! The MS dead horse has been beaten thoroughly to death.... Leave it be to rot and MOVE ON!

[Fred]

I'll do as I please, in the lounge, and so will you. This "forum maintenance" directly affected a friend of mine, negatively. Thank you Jean for leaving the link to the new thread here, though it's pretty fucking far from the release thread in which it originated. I don't see a post in that release thread linking the new thread...

In that case, it would have been better to start a new thread, link it, and carry on discussions, back linking from the new thread. As it stands, there are confusing posts in the old thread and no clue as to where the context is.

Plus, importantly, there is no mention in the 3.1.1 thread saying how fucked up it is in that respect. The release thread is THE place for such information. People should be made aware of such issues, such that they can use something functional, if third party, from the start. This car has now been setup and run on the 3.1.0 code because that remains globally sticky despite a late release existing.

You'd have to confess, that 3.1.1 "release" should be pushed up above the 3.1.0 "release" thread as a normal part of forum maintenance, unlike badly splitting a perfectly legitimate conversation out of where it belonged and removing context from both the new and old thread. If 3.1.0 is a better bet than 3.1.1 that is a daily WTF in and of itself. If it's not, then it should be promoted on the forum, and the instructions.

As for my questionable maintenance, here is what I've done in 3 years:

• Soft deleted 21 posts or pairs of posts, all but 5 were from Motofab. All are still viewable to the core membership.
• Hard deleted half a dozen duplicate posts and a few non controversial other posts. No content of any value was lost.
• Obviously edited a few posts to help add content, or remove bad material that harms users/readers, etc, leaving my mark to make it obvious.
• Subtly edited a few posts to improve formatting, punctuation, spelling, and other things, notifying the original poster where appropriate.
• Banned no one, driven a few idiots and distractions away by being stiff with them, though.

Have I forgotten anything? Not much, if anything. I think you could agree, subjectively, or objectively, that that is a very very VERY VERY mild and hands off approach, no matter with which other forum you compare it.

Fred.

[jbelanger]

Yeah, you'll do as you please in the lounge or anywhere else. And I didn't put the link because it took less time to find the thread in question that it took to write this sentence and the fact I don't see any use in having MS discussed here especially with your attitude towards it and the people involved. If your friend needs help with MS, he can ask on the msextra forum where he will, in all likelihood, be well received. And it's not as if the original code will break anything compared to the 'mariob' code since it's only a closed loop idle issue.

And your mild approach to forum maintenance has had me fuming a couple of times. And I'll be curious to see how that continues when you have an order of magnitude more posts and active topics, if that ever happens, and that you have to deal with people that are almost clueless and a pain about it.

Actually, I don't really care. I was hoping that this could be a nice alternative to what is available and that a nice clean competition could bring on some improvements on both sides. But you make it impossible for people like me to be involved on both sides because you go out of your way to spit in people's face both publicly and behind the scenes so that they can't even chose to simply ignore you. And from Dave's message, I'm not the only one who's uncomfortable.

So have fun with your project and I hope you can mature one of these days (but I don't think this message will have any positive impact on this).

Jean

[MotoFab]

What's the matter here? Is all not well in Fredland?

:wink

Edit: Btw, I think I noticed a spelling error in one of the Russian-language threads. And one post had too many carriage returns.

+1 :wink